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Interview: Geeky convert Leah Libresco teaches me to pray

Interview: Geeky convert Leah Libresco teaches me to pray

Last updated on: May 7, 2015 at 3:36 pm by Jeannine Pitas

Interview: Geeky convert Leah Libresco teaches me to pray 2015-05-07T15:36:08-05:00 Jeannine Pitas

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In June 2012, the blogosphere was rattled when Leah Libresco, a prominent atheist blogger known for her insatiable curiosity and staunch commitment to truth, announced that she had converted to Catholicism. A professional statistician and ardent lover of mathematics, Libresco arrived at faith through the use of reason. Beginning with the premise that morality is inherent in the natural order and discovered (rather than invented) by humans, she struggled to understand our faculty of conscience. How do we gain access to this moral truth? Ultimately, Libresco decided that this morality that reveals itself to us through our conscience is not just an impersonal Truth, but a present, loving Person: God.

In the three years that have passed since the “Aha!” moment of Libresco’s conversion, a lot has happened in her life: her graduation from university, her launch of a promising career in journalism, the continued success of her blog Unequally Yoked, and her acclimation to a new life as a Catholic. She also devoted some time to writing her first book, Arriving at Amen, which was just released today by Ave Maria Press:

When I learned at the beginning of this year that the book was forthcoming, I immediately wrote to the publisher requesting a sneak-preview copy with the promise to review it on Vox Nova. I expected a detailed narrative of Libresco’s conversion, complete with the zany twists and turns that characterize her writing: discussions of math, ballroom dancing, and of course the ubiquitous references to Broadway musicals.

Upon receiving the book, I opened it to find that while it did contain that eclectic panoply of topics, it was much more than a conversion story. Subtitled “Seven Catholic Prayers That Even I Can Offer,” the book delves into a discussion of petitions, the Daily Examen, the Sacrament of Reconciliation, the Rosary, Divine Office, Lectio Divina and finally the Mass. In each chapter, Libresco discusses the origins of this particular form of prayer, narrates her experience of learning to pray it, and meditates on its significance for coming to grow in our knowledge and love of God. Her fresh perspective on these rituals invites her Catholic audience to come to pray those prayers we may be less familiar with (such as the Divine Office) and to come back to our most central ones (like the Mass) with a renewed spirit It also provides a solid introduction to the Catholic faith for anyone who might be curious about it.

After reading this excellent book, I asked the author if she’d be willing to indulge me in a Skype conversation. She graciously obliged, and now I’d like to share some of her words with you*.*

Q: You grew up as an atheist. One thing that surprises me about your pre-conversion life is that you were a moral realist, which is not a position I see much among the atheists I know. Why were you a moral realist?

A: Actually, a lot of atheists are moral realists, though they might not describe themselves that way. In some branches of philosophy there is an intense scepticism that if you can’t describe or map something, you shouldn’t claim its existence. People might say this about conscience – if we don’t know how it works, then we can’t assume that morality is real. But to me, that seems like saying that if we don’t know how the eye works (as at one time we did not), we can’t assume the existence of sight.

In addition to relying our knowledge of how things work, we can also trust our lived experience. Some atheists come to expect that even if we don’t know the truth about morality just yet, an answer will become available. And even atheists who don’t identify as moral realists, there’s a lot of moral language used. Most of the atheists I know wouldn’t bite the bullet and say that the actions of a terrorist group like IS would be morally acceptable if the majority of people believed they were.

Q: Based on your description of the conversion experience, it appears that you came to a belief in God through logic rather than emotion. Since converting, have you come to feel and experience God in a personal way?

A: My conversion was a change of reasoning, but the solution to the part I was stuck came in a flash of inspiration. It’s like when I’m writing computer code and know the shape of what I need to do but can’t quite pin it down yet. When I reached God, I had a new feeling that I couldn’t articulate. But I had no practice in thinking of God as a person or inviting this God into my life. It required effort, kind of like when you start dating someone and gradually start making more and more space in your life for them.

Q: Why did you convert to Catholicism (as opposed to another form of Christianity?)

A: Catholicism resembled a coherent religion more than other sects. Unlike many Protestant churches, it doesn’t see schism as a valid option. It had much more of an attitude that the Church is a family where you can be a terrible sibling, but you can’t just not be not part of this group anymore. I’d say that any religion that truly has a claim on all of us should be making a claim on all of us, and Catholicism does that.

Also, Catholicism places an added emphasis on the incarnational nature of the faith. How do I as a finite person have knowledge of transcendent, infinite goodness? The Incarnation of Jesus bridges this gap, and the Eucharist goes even further with this connection.

Q: How do formalized prayers help you (as opposed to just spontaneous prayers in your own words?) Is one better than the other?

A: Formal prayer has helped me a lot. It’s easy for trivial inconveniences to keep me from praying; I have to plan aggressively to make sure I follow through on my desire to do so. I used to teach in a rationality boot camp designed to help people achieve their goals, and one thing we always stressed is the need for preparation and planning. (If you want to go to the gym, you should have your clothes out the day before; if you want to write, you should have your writing materials out and ready in advance). Starting is usually the hardest part of doing something, so you should try to make it easier for yourself. The prayers given by the Church help me in that I don’t have to worry about how to start or what to say. I also like the universality of these prayers; whenever I say them, I’m connected to other people all around the world who are also praying to God. It’s nice to think of the lateral community I’m part of as well as the immediate upward one.

Q: In the first chapter of your book (“Petition”) you talk about the power of remembering the people we don’t get along with or who’ve hurt us and praying for their intentions; you express the belief that this type of prayer allows us to love our enemies. Do you really believe that it is possible to become one with our enemies through the help of God’s grace?

A. Yes, I do. The two things that help me most are trusting that if I know this person is a human, they are also made in the image of Christ; there is something about us that unites us. Also, I try to pay a lot of attention to what the person loves or is trying to protect (even from me). It means there is something valorous or loving about them. I may disagree with what they think needs to be protected, but I still love that sense of love, and I don’t want that passion of what they’re defending extinguished – I see it as an expression of their caring for me. Instead, I want it redirected – perhaps toward me, definitely toward God.

Q: On page 11 of the chapter on petition, you make an interesting hypothesis that religious people are more likely to share their problems with one another than nonreligious people because, even if Christians can’t always solve one another’s problems, we can always say, “I’ll pray for you.” Secular people don’t have this outlet. What do you think we could do to give more support to people who don’t pray?

A: Christianity makes it easier to ask for help, and prayer gives us a way to communicate care and respond to someone’s need without solving their problem that instant. In the secular world, when we expect things to be met by immediate solutions, we don’t want to bring up problems the other person can’t solve. I believe that on the whole we could benefit from more structured ways to ask one another for help. For example, I’m part of a community that does a once-a-month job posting to help people find work. Society needs more of that kind of thing.

Q: You place a lot of value on being emotionally honest and not making a false petition. Why is it so important to avoid false petitions, and what happens to us if we make them?

A: A false petition would be like an automated message, no genuine communication. I’m relaying something untrue that has nothing to do with me.” It’s also contemptuous of me in a way that God is not – it’s really weird theology, thinking God would want me to be someone else!

Q: I was really intrigued by your thoughts on confession and impressed that you go every three weeks. Many Catholics nowadays receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation rarely or not at all, and in your chapter you give some good reasons why – loss aversion, avoiding the pain of facing wrongdoings, shame. There is the attitude of “God already knows what I’ve done wrong – why must I confess?” What would you say to people who avoid confession for that reason?

A: A sacrament is an outward sign of inward grace. Confession is there for YOU so that you know you are forgiven. We feel better if we get the reassurance that we are forgiven; making that assurance physical and tangible helps us to understand it better.

Q: In the secular world have we lost a sense of sin?

A: We certainly have trouble talking about the bad things we do without losing our compassion and respect for one another. We this on online outrage storms, where someone does something controversial that is then deemed either totally fine or totally bad. In Catholicism, however, expect people to do really harmful things from time to time. Those actions have consequences, but they do not take away the worth of the person who has done them. We accept that none of us are ever going to only do good things.

Q: Some people might say they don’t see the point of confession when we can keep on committing the same sins over again. Do you believe in growth and human perfectibility? Are we doomed to make the same mistakes again and again, or is there a genuine ability to improve with the help of God’s grace?

A: I see confession as an act of rejection/resistance against sin. It shows you are actively resisting sin, regretting the wrong thing you are doing. In terms of sinning again and again, I’m reminded of the “what the hell” effect with dieting, where people stick to a diet for a while, fall off the wagon once and then give up. We can get into this tendency of thinking that as soon as we fall back into sin, we’ve already lost the game and there’s no sense in continuing to try. I don’t think we can expect to stop sinning, but I also believe that each choice we make matters in the moment we make it. The fact that I may sin again does not stop this sin, this time from mattering.

Q: I really appreciated your chapter on the Divine Office (Liturgy of the Hours) as I have only said this prayer once in my life, while staying at a convent in high school for a service project. But after reading your book I want to learn it! You speak beautifully about the way this prayer brackets your day with an awareness of God, connects you to other people who are praying it around the world, and also leads you to have more empathy for others if. Empathy is something you mention a lot in the book, and I am wondering if you could say more about it. Recent psychological research shows that empathy does not make us more moral or compassionate people. Why do you find it so important?

A: I don’t think empathy needs to be a means to a kind of behaviour. For me, empathy is the natural end of who we are and who we are meant to be as people. If we are to share in the beatific vision together, we will delight in all that God delights in – that includes all his creation. We can’t erase all divisions between ourselves and others, but we can try to weaken the barriers that we ourselves put up. I see that as an eschatological end in itself.

Q: In your chapter on Lectio Divina and Scripture, you talk about the via negativa – coming to know God by understanding what is not God. How does this approach help you?

A: People latched onto the via negativa because they found it hard to talk about God’s attributes (infinite goodness and love). This is hard for us to understand because we don’t have a visceral experience of the infinite. Understanding our finitude, however, might just give us a sense of it. If I am angry at someone and don’t want to be reconciled to them, I don’t know what perfect forgiveness looks like, but I know it’s NOT what I am feeling. I learn a little of what God is by looking at contrasts between that and what I do. I want to understand God so that I can become more like God.

Q: In your chapter on the Mass, you talk about the way the liturgical year helped you to mark out time once you finished university and started working full-time. Can the liturgical year help us to feel more grounded and perhaps stop us from treating time as a commodity?

A: The liturgy is valuable in terms of making me realize that time is not fungible. The annual cycle of the liturgical year made me more aware of the linear passage of time and the changes that take place. This in turn gives me reason to aggressively make time for things that are more important to me – I have a stronger sense of life’s changes.

Q: On a more general note, what do you think that Catholics can learn from atheists? In turn, what can atheists learn from us, and how can we present that knowledge in a way that will be met with receptivity?

Catholics can learn the tradition of critical thinking and useful scepticism that is so highly valued in atheist communities. Answering someone else’s questions can be constructive in showing you your own faith; it helps us to know our own framework better, and to question yourself.

We can also learn to respond constructively to the anger of atheists. For example, there’s a lot of anger about how religion shows up in science classrooms in the US. We need to acknowledge that the anger is legitimate; even when it’s not our fault, when speaking to someone, they have no reason to differentiate us from others who are doing harm.

One area where atheists are eager to learn from religion is on ritual and community-building; we see this in the growing Sunday assembly tradition and secular solstice celebrations. People see a real need that church meets and try to meet it in their own way. I think it’s a good impulse; there is a dearth of communities for people to connect to in a positive way. It’s good that more atheists are seeing this ritual as an actual human need; it should eventually lessen the tendency some atheists have to see Christianity as only being a social organization and to look beyond the warm/fuzzy benefits it gives its members.

Q: Statistics (and my own experience) show that young people are leaving the Church. What could be done to bring millennials back?

A: Parishes need to recognize that millennials are not a homogeneous group and should not all be treated the same (by offering them generic social events, etc.) Some will want to move into non-age-specific groups based on interests. For example, in my parish (which is right on Capitol Hill in DC) we have an adult Sunday school program after Mass; it’s rich in content and really draws people in. DC also has monthly meet-ups where we listen to a speaker discuss an interesting topic. Organizing activities like these will appeal to young people and give them a chance to learn more about the faith.

Q: How did you get the idea for your book, Arriving at Amen?

A: Initially I was going to write a shorter book just on the rosary, but when I pitched that idea to the publisher, I was told that there were already a lot of books on this topic. So, after some more thought, I came up with the idea to discuss all of these prayers that I was coming to the learn through the lens of my other interests and my conversion experience. I pitched the second idea to them, and I am so happy that they accepted it.

I am very grateful to Leah Libresco for sharing her story with me, and I believe that she is an example for all of us who are seeking to grow in the depth of our spirituality and faith. If you are interested in reading her excellent book, more information is available here.

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