BuddhistCatholicContemplativeEvangelicalGeneral ChristianHinduJewishLatter-day SaintMuslimNew VisionsProgressive Christian
Beliefs
- Buddhist
- Catholic
- Contemplative
- Evangelical
- General Christian
- Hindu
- Jewish
- Latter-day Saint
- More Voices
- Muslim
- New Visions
- Pagan
- Progressive Christian
Topics
- Religion News
- Food and Religion
- Sports and Religion
- Religious Art
- Religious Music and Entertainment
- Religious Events
- History and Religion
- Style and Religion
- Politics and Religion
- Women in Religion
- Recreation Outdoors and Religion
- Business Finance and Religion
- Careers Workplace and Religion
- Education and Religion
- Family Parenting and Religion
- Health Fitness and Religion
- Home and Religion
- Relationships and Religion
- Technology and Religion
- Travel and Religion
Columnists
- Buddhist Columnists
- Business Finance and Religion Columnists
- Careers Workplace and Religion Columnists
- Catholic Columnists
- Contemplative Columnists
- Education and Religion Columnists
- Evangelists Columnists
- Family Parenting and Religion Columnists
- General Christian Columnists
- Health Fitness and Religion Columnists
- Hindu Columnists
- History and Religion Columnists
- Home and Religion Columnists
- Jewish Columnists
- More Voices Columnists
- Latter Day Columnists
- Muslim Columnists
- New Visions Columnists
- Nonreligious Columnists
- Pagan Columnists
- Politics and Religion Columnists
- Progressive Columnists
- Recreation Outdoors and Religion Columnists
- Relationships and Religion Columnists
- Religion News Columnists
- Religious Art Columnists
- Religious Events Columnists
- Religious Music and Entertainment Columnists
- Sports and Religion Columnists
- Style and Religion Columnists
- Technology and Religion Columnists
- Travel and Religion Columnists
- Women in Religion Columnists
Resource Library
- 2026 Calendar
- Library of World Religions
- The 100 Most Holy Places on Earth
- Patheos Answers
- Podcasts
- Videos
- Faith Leaders Database
- Anglican Episcopalian
- Bahai
- Baptist
- Buddhism
- Christianity
- Confucianism
- Eastern Orthodoxy
- Hinduism
- Holiness and Pentecostal
- ISKCON
- Islam
- Judaism
- Lutheran
- Methodist
- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
- New Age
- Paganism
- Presbytarian and Reformed
- Protestantism
- Religion Behind the Scenes
- Roman Catholic
- Scientology
- Shia Islam
- Sikhism
- Sufism
- Sunni Islam
- Taoism
- Zen
- See all religions
Research Tools
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
- Trending:
- Forgiveness
- |
- Marriage
- |
- Consciousness
- |
- Death Penalty
- |
- Election
- |
- Halloween
Unequally Yoked
- Home
- Catholic
- Can We Play Not-Nicely Better, Please?
Can We Play Not-Nicely Better, Please?
Last updated on: April 10, 2013 at 12:19 pm by Leah Libresco
Can We Play Not-Nicely Better, Please? 2013-04-10T12:19:53-04:00 Leah Libresco
Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.
And speaking of sparing feelings without pulling punches, there’s been a donnybrook going between Tom McDonald (Catholic) and Hemant Mehta (atheist) and JT Eberhard waded in yesterday. I’m not planning to tag in exactly, but I would like to suggest that they have a slightly different fight.
Both Tom’s original post mocking atheism and Hemant and JT’s rejoinder seemed pitched particularly to their own sides, so, even though the posts got pretty heated, it has kind of the effect of a flurry of haymakers that don’t actually land but certainly go whoooosh.
This all started on April Fools day, when Tom called on Catholics to reach out to atheist friends, but the language he used strikes me (pre- and post-conversion) as a little more than kin and a little less than kind, if you know what I mean.
Go ahead and hug an atheist today. They need it. They live lives of sad desperation caught in a meaningless universe and protest that they’re happy because they see things “as they really are” and are free to enjoy life as it is, and then disappear into the dust and relieve an already overcrowded world of yet another sentient meatbag…
What they need isn’t atheism. What they need is what atheism can never offer. Charity. Faith. Hope…
Atheists offer people an attractive lie: the world all there is, so you might as well just enjoy it. In other words, they look at a broken world, say it can be no product of a loving and omnipotent God, and therefore urge people to just embrace it as is.
There are a number of things I disagree with in Tom’s essay, and I tend to disagree with the phrasing of what I do agree with. For one thing, just because it might be true to say that people can’t be fully happy without God doesn’t mean it’s persuasive or helpful. Heaven knows that I was a very unsuccessful math evangelist when I walked around essentially asserting that everyone had a number theory-shaped hole in their heart. They might not realize how much they were missing out on now, but after the scales fell from their eyes, they’d wonder how they could have ever gone so long without feeling a little twinge whenever they thought of the Fibonacci sequence. (“You know, you can think of almost everything as a math problem…“)
However, even though I am a very trustworthy person, I couldn’t always to get people to take math classes purely on my say-so. Even though I was in fact correct that learning math infuses the world with structure and beauty! And I would have been quite wrong to tell my friends that, despite their subjective experience, they were actually unhappy, since they were missing out on a way to appreciate the world. To convince them, I needed to show them some math (possibly Martin Gardner, possibly Flatland).
So, if you’re trying to show, not assert that Christianity fills some kind of gap, there are a lot of ways to approach it. You could make a philosophical case that you do feel happiness/charity/ethics/etc, but you can’t ground them without God (try The Last Superstition). You could try to get more specific on exactly what you’re talking about when you talk about Agape (The Four Loves).
But I suspect you actually want art, not apologetics. It might be best to invite your friend over for a viewing of Of Gods and Men. And then go over to their place the next weekend for a film of their choosing and more discussion and desserts in a “How ought we love?” film festival. But I think opening up that conversation takes time and trust. Both of which are in short supply online.
Mind you, I don’t usually pull off this kind of patience, even with friends. I’ve more than once gone on lecturing too long, and then, after the room had cleared, turn to the friend that remains and said plaintively, “Why can’t I just shake people into loving math? They’ll like it when I win!” (It worked about as well for me as for Toby). After all, the first piece of evidence that people see for what math does for me is the way I behave when I pitch it.
There’s been a lot of invective in response to Tom’s post, and, rather than set off a new round, I’d be interested in hearing from JT, Hemant, and Tom (if they’re interested) how they try and convince a good friend that they’ve been missing out on math or classical music or philosopy or whatnot. And then if everyone wants to go the art-as-apologetics route, I’d be glad to host another symposium.
Previous Post

April 9, 2013
Am I enabling blasphemy?
Next Post

April 12, 2013 It's Hard to Make Up Marriage
Browse Our Archives
Select a Category 7 Quick Takes Apologetics Atheism Book Conversion Debate Tactics Debates Epistemology/Philosophy Housekeeping Ideological Turing Test Marriage Morality in Practice Parsing Catholicism Possibly Heretical Radio Reviews/Recommendations Sequence Index Spiritual Practice Uncategorized
Select a Month April 2017 March 2017 January 2017 December 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011 December 2010 November 2010 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 June 2010
Follow Us!
TAKE THE
Religious Wisdom Quiz
What principle about debt is found in Proverbs?
Select your answer to see how you score.
Never lend Ignore money The borrower is slave to the lender Debt is always good
Related posts from Unequally Yoked
Rational Faith: More working hypothesis than logical proof
Starting Conversations During Francis's Visit
Desiring Abundance of Life, Not Just Absence of...
Why Not Refer to ISIS by an Epithet?
TRENDING AT PATHEOS Catholic
The Parable Of The Sower And The Word...
One of Christ’s most famous parables is that of the sower who...
Rejecting Doom: Christian Hope And Human Action
Christianity is a religion of hope. We are to have hope and...
Why I Choose the Eucharist Over the Sermon
Choose the Eucharist, Not the Sermon What are we supposed to get...
5 Design Elements Found in Spiritually Rooted Homes
Putting Spirituality Into Home Decor Our homes are more than our living...
Credo: A Story of God Told with the...
About 10 years ago, I began to imagine a personal "Credo" that...
The Anatomy of Divine Revelation in Catholic Thought
The claim that God has made Himself known to human beings is...
view all Catholic blogs
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
- About Us
- 2026 Calendar
- Videos
- Podcasts
- Library of World Religions
- Faith In Media Tracker
- Advertise With Us
- Write for Us
- Privacy Policy
- Terms of Service
- Do Not Sell My Data
- Contact Us
- Radiant Digital
- Manage Newsletter Subscriptions
- Unsubscribe From Notifications
- Sitemap
Copyright 2008-2026, Patheos. All rights reserved.
Subscription Support Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In










