“The Best Book on Pope Francis”—My Interview with John Zmirak

Last updated on: November 14, 2023 at 5:13 pm by John Gravino

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“The Best Book on Pope Francis”—My Interview with John Zmirak 2023-11-14T17:13:12-05:00 John Gravino

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You would think Pope Francis needed a vacation after the month-long Synod on Synodality concluded. But you would be wrong. If you follow Catholic news, then you already know that Pope Francis has been quite a busy bee. He just finished canning Bishop Joseph Strickland of Tyler, Texas. The story was carried all over the media including The Wall Street Journal and Forbes Magazine. The act was widely criticized in the media and even by bishops and cardinals.

So John Zmirak contacted me and asked me to do an interview on all the post-synodal events of the past couple of weeks. Zmirak is a Senior Editor at The Stream and the author of a dozen or so books.

Here is an excerpt from the interview, in which John praises my book:

“You wrote the best book on Pope Francis.”

You wrote the best book on Pope Francis, Confronting the Pope of Suspicion. In it, you examine how the LGBT movement and the Sexual Revolution infiltrated the priesthood and other Catholic institutions. What were the philosophical roots of that infiltration? How was it accomplished practically?

Thank you for the compliment! The Sexual Revolution traces its intellectual origins to developments in early 20th century psychology, courtesy of Sigmund Freud. Freud argued that Christian sexual morality was psychologically unhealthy because it was too restrictive and led to neurosis and mental breakdown. Of course, if you believed this, then vows of celibacy would be the worst thing you could do for your sanity. So Catholic priests and nuns became a natural target for psychologists.

In the book, I tell the story of psychologist Carl Rogers and the Immaculate Heart of Mary nuns. He convinced the order to participate in his “encounter” therapy groups where members opened up about all their feelings. Members of the encounter groups became sexually active with each other. After only a couple of years working with Rogers, half the nuns left the order and all but one of their 60 schools were shut down. That was the fruit of sexual liberation. Actually, the fruits of the sexual revolution were abundant in the Catholic Church. They include the clergy sexual abuse crisis. I explain all that in the book.

“How the Sexual Revolution Conquered the Church—An Interview with John Gravino”

Postscript to the Interview

The following is a postscript that doesn’t appear in the interview, but is a succinct summary of the case I make for Pope Francis being a heretic.

Thanks to John Zmirak and The Stream for interviewing me about my book on Pope Francis. This heretic has occupied the papal throne now for more than a decade. To call Francis a heretic 4 1/2 years ago when I first published my book was controversial. But the H word has now been raised by recent CDF head Card. Gerhard Müller. And others. The purpose of my book, as I stated in the first edition conclusion, was to strengthen the case for heresy.

As I summarize in this interview, the case for heresy is quite clear when Amoris Laetitia(AL) is read in light of the historical context and intellectual history of the ideas it contains. [And it is this essential historical context that my book provides, but which is missing from most discussions of Pope Francis.] Consider the following:

Pope Francis was NOT the first person to say that moral theology needs to be science-based. He was NOT the first person to reject a “deductive, a priori natural law.” He was NOT the first person to call for universal inclusion of sexual sinners in the Church. Who said these thing before Pope Francis?

CHARLES CURRAN. Pope John Paul II BANNED him from teaching theology BECAUSE of these ideas. The reason for the ban? Because the very point of these ideas was to change Church teaching on sexual ethics.

And that is still the aim of these ideas. The German bishops have told us so. So has Card. Hollerich. So has New Ways Ministry. And what text do these people point to to justify their heretical moral theology? AMORIS LAETITIA. Thus, these DEFENDERS of Pope Francis see him as a disciple of the heretical Charles Curran. We should believe them.

And finally, if the Germans and New Ways Ministry and Fr. James Martin could figure out what Amoris Laetitia was saying. AND IF DUMB OLD ME COULD FIGURE IT OUT, THEN ALL THE BISHOPS OF THE WORLD AND ALL THE THEOLOGIANS ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE for allowing a heretic to stay on the throne for so long.

We have lost a good and brave and faithful bishop in Joseph Strickland because a corrupt and wicked man occupies the papal throne. The damage to the Church will be incalculable if Pope Francis is allowed to stay.

Religion News

Confronting the Pope of Suspicion—the book

About John Gravino

John Gravino is the author of The Immoral Landscape of the New Atheism, which was the topic of a health and spirituality seminar at Duke Medical School. He continues to explore the intersection of health and religion and the other big questions of life right here at Patheos. You can read more about the author here.

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