Patheos

BuddhistCatholicContemplativeEvangelicalGeneral ChristianHinduJewishLatter-day SaintMuslimNew VisionsProgressive Christian

Beliefs

Topics

Columnists

Resource Library

Research Tools

Video

Podcasts

Thought Readers

Faith In Media Tracker

Newsletters

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Patheos

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Follow Patheos Patheos on Facebook Patheos on YouTube

Robert Hunt: Interfaith Encounters

Love Minus Zero / No Limit?

Last updated on: June 9, 2016 at 6:32 am   by Robert Hunt

Love Minus Zero / No Limit? 2016-06-09T06:32:55-06:00 Robert Hunt

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

In the last blog I offered that God reveals God’s self in scripture as the creator of order, indeed of overlapping orders that define the natural world, the social world of humans, and the church. I also stated that the Christian understanding of those orders has been continually revised up until today under the twin influences of natural revelation and the ideals of God’s Reign as described in scripture.

American Christian progressives, as I read them, are most anxious to continue revising the traditional understanding of the social order to allow for same-sex marriage, and of the ecclesial order so as to allow the blessing of such marriages. And they maintain that this revision is in keeping with the ideals of God’s reign as revealed in God’s Word; ideals usually characterized as love and inclusion. These ideals, love and inclusion, are interpreted to mean accepting and affirming LGBTQ persons with their distinctive sexual identity and including their committed relationships into the institution of marriage within the larger order of God’s Reign.

Which raises a question about just how the orderliness of God’s Reign is conceptualized.

Regardless of how one revises the Biblical picture of God’s order, at the foundations one finds distinctions and boundaries, and in particular distinctions between types of behavior and bounds of behavior beyond which humans are not to transgress. The very concept of order in the Bible is an interplay between creative generatively and the creating of distinctions and boundaries. Night and day have their bounds, as do earth, sky, and water and the various types of creatures. And of course these bounds extend into human relationships as they unfold in the Biblical narrative.

One can argue that from the standpoint of natural revelation as interpreted by modern science (physical, social, and psychological) that these bounds were rather naively drawn, but this does not speak against the idea of boundaries as fundamental to God’s order. Male and female as distinctions and boundaries around identity are more complex than previous generations thought, but they are still distinctions. And marriage, even for progressives, appears to form a kind of boundary around permissible forms of human sexual behavior. At least as I read them progressives would say that covenanting in a “committed relationship ‘forsaking all others so long as you both shall live?’ creates boundary outside of which certain kinds of relationships are not permissible.

But is marriage itself, as described above, an unrevisable context for committed human relationships? We read in scripture that in Heaven there is no marriage, so it clearly isn’t a permanent feature of God’s Reign. Is it a necessary institution prior to the consummation of God’s Reign? Or can the process of revising the meaning of marriage between two persons, based on the demands of love and inclusion, eventually revise it out of existence, removing the boundary that it represents so as to not hinder individuals from realizing their full sense of sexual identity?

And while we think of such social institutions as marriage, the meaning of which has been and apparently continues to be the subject of revision by progressives, what about other distinctions and boundaries? In the order of the church is the distinction between clergy and lay subject to revision, and with it the boundaries around the ministries of each? The distinction between clergy and episcopacy? (After all, Wesley appeared to transgress this boundary) Is there a distinction between Christianity and other religions? Are there boundaries between them that persons in each cannot transgress? On what basis do you define such boundaries and is it permanent or also subject to revision?

These are not idle questions. Every one of the distinctions I’ve listed above has been denied and the boundaries of belief and belonging tested in recent years and decades by Christians who revise the traditional interpretation of the Bible to include everything from Buddhist metaphysics to accepting Muhammad as a prophet of God.

I have asked of traditionalists why they stopped revising. I ask of progressives: is there any limit beyond which would not revise? What are the criteria that will determine where you stop? And do those criteria emerge from the Bible itself as revelation or from some outside set of standards to which it is subject? It seems to me that this is at the heart of the debate over revision, given as I’ve stated that everyone revises.

It appears that for progressives the answer to these questions are found in the ideals of love and inclusion themselves rather than particular limiting commandments found in scripture. Marriage as an institution is defined by, bounded by the demands placed on it by the love of those within it within the larger network of loving friends and relations. One could even argue, although I have not seen this argument articulated, that the demands of inclusion create boundaries that ultimately exclude. For example, a Christian congregation that wishes to include the weak and powerless will need to exclude those who prey on the weak and powerless. Paul seems to make an argument like this in his letters. So it is at least imaginable that limitless revision can still maintain some form of order, albeit one that seems rather tenuously answerable to human affections and social norms.

But with regard to marriage there is one further question I need to ask. You want to revise the Christian concept of marriage to include marriage between two persons of the same sex. Yet marriage isn’t just a Christian institution. It is a human institution found across all cultures. Very recently in the United States this institution has been legally revised so as to include two persons of the same sex. But the United States wisely limits its sovereignty to its own borders and doesn’t insist that societies outside the US accept same-sex marriage. What about United Methodist progressives? Will you accept limits to your sovereign right to revise the institution of marriage; recognizing that other cultures and religions, not to mention other United Methodists may not accept your revisions. Put another way, is there a cultural limit to your revisions of the concept of marriage – or do you regard them as universally valid even if they are not universally accepted?

This is a key question for a Christian witness in a culturally and religious plural world. And particularly so when Christian minorities in many parts of the world live under the accusation that they are simply the advance guard for Western cultural hegemony. Indeed such accusations come from within the LGBTQ communities in other cultural contexts when that community sees American progressives pushing a distinctively American agenda of homonormativity.

It seems to me that while one can imagine an almost limitless revision of the interpretation of scripture under the influence of God’s Spirit it is harder to imagine it when confronted with the boundaries placed on us by culture on one hand and the claim of the universality of God’s Reign on the other. It appears to me that the truths that are most universal are of necessity the most primal and limited. Marriage as a relationship between a man and a woman is certainly limiting and exclusive. It is also universally comprehensible and transcends all cultural differences. The same can be said of different forms of bounded communities and the limits they place on human behavior.

I want to stress that asking questions is not the same as suggesting that they have no answers. Nor does it signal that I agree with traditionalists in these matters. It is simply my way of suggesting that our discourse needs to push toward the root disagreements which, unexposed, make it impossible to find common ground; or at least identify whether common ground might exist.

And I ask because I believe that people should speak for themselves. Right now both sides in the major debates among United Methodists spend more time attacking straw men of their own devising than engaging one another. Small wonder both sides believe they have won yet take neither comfort nor pleasure in their victory.

Christian Identity

Home Page

Previous Post



June 5, 2016

Everyone Revises - The Question is Where to Stop

Next Post



June 14, 2016 Orlando and Religious Law - We have a Problem


Browse Our Archives

Select a Category Christian Identity Christian Muslim Relations Home Page Inter-Religious Dialogue Uncategorized

Select a Month September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 June 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011 December 2010 November 2010 October 2010 September 2010 July 2010 May 2010




TAKE THE

Religious Wisdom Quiz

Which book contains the "Song of Deborah"?

Select your answer to see how you score.

Judges Ruth Exodus 1 Samuel

Related posts from Robert Hunt: Interfaith Encounters

Interfaith

Our God is too Small

Robert Hunt: Interfaith Encounters

Interfaith

Privilege and the Loss of Personhood

Robert Hunt: Interfaith Encounters

Interfaith

At the Intersection of Exclusion

Robert Hunt: Interfaith Encounters

Interfaith

Restoring Civilization: Whose Babies?

Robert Hunt: Interfaith Encounters

TRENDING AT PATHEOS Progressive Christian

Did Prayer Cure His Cancer? Or Was It...

At 4 AM one morning, Joshua W. Brown’s wife awoke to a...

8 Ways a Near-Death Experience Rewires the Soul

Does Consciousness Survive Physical Death? After 50 Years of Research, Dr. Raymond...

Holy Longing: What Our Restlessness Is Telling Us

“One can find so many pains when the rain is falling.” -John...

The Making of a Dumbass

  What this is NOT about.  This blog is definitely not about...

Who Told You That?

Who said the Israelites were God’s chosen? That’s right, they did. Who...

The Spirit World Is the Real World: God...

A Monk’s Wisdom on Body and Spirit I sit with Brother Martin...

view all Progressive Christian blogs

Patheos on Facebook Patheos on YouTube

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Copyright 2008-2026, Patheos. All rights reserved.

Subscription Support Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In

Follow Patheos Patheos on Facebook Patheos on YouTube