BuddhistCatholicContemplativeEvangelicalGeneral ChristianHinduJewishLatter-day SaintMuslimNew VisionsProgressive Christian
Beliefs
- Buddhist
- Catholic
- Contemplative
- Evangelical
- General Christian
- Hindu
- Jewish
- Latter-day Saint
- More Voices
- Muslim
- New Visions
- Pagan
- Progressive Christian
Topics
- Religion News
- Food and Religion
- Sports and Religion
- Religious Art
- Religious Music and Entertainment
- Religious Events
- History and Religion
- Style and Religion
- Politics and Religion
- Women in Religion
- Recreation Outdoors and Religion
- Business Finance and Religion
- Careers Workplace and Religion
- Education and Religion
- Family Parenting and Religion
- Health Fitness and Religion
- Home and Religion
- Relationships and Religion
- Technology and Religion
- Travel and Religion
Columnists
- Buddhist Columnists
- Business Finance and Religion Columnists
- Careers Workplace and Religion Columnists
- Catholic Columnists
- Contemplative Columnists
- Education and Religion Columnists
- Evangelists Columnists
- Family Parenting and Religion Columnists
- General Christian Columnists
- Health Fitness and Religion Columnists
- Hindu Columnists
- History and Religion Columnists
- Home and Religion Columnists
- Jewish Columnists
- More Voices Columnists
- Latter Day Columnists
- Muslim Columnists
- New Visions Columnists
- Nonreligious Columnists
- Pagan Columnists
- Politics and Religion Columnists
- Progressive Columnists
- Recreation Outdoors and Religion Columnists
- Relationships and Religion Columnists
- Religion News Columnists
- Religious Art Columnists
- Religious Events Columnists
- Religious Music and Entertainment Columnists
- Sports and Religion Columnists
- Style and Religion Columnists
- Technology and Religion Columnists
- Travel and Religion Columnists
- Women in Religion Columnists
Resource Library
- 2026 Calendar
- Library of World Religions
- The 100 Most Holy Places on Earth
- Patheos Answers
- Podcasts
- Videos
- Faith Leaders Database
- Anglican Episcopalian
- Bahai
- Baptist
- Buddhism
- Christianity
- Confucianism
- Eastern Orthodoxy
- Hinduism
- Holiness and Pentecostal
- ISKCON
- Islam
- Judaism
- Lutheran
- Methodist
- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
- New Age
- Paganism
- Presbytarian and Reformed
- Protestantism
- Religion Behind the Scenes
- Roman Catholic
- Scientology
- Shia Islam
- Sikhism
- Sufism
- Sunni Islam
- Taoism
- Zen
- See all religions
Research Tools
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
- Trending:
- Forgiveness
- |
- Marriage
- |
- Consciousness
- |
- Death Penalty
- |
- Election
- |
- Halloween
- Home
- Buddhist
- Didn’t You Used to Be a Minister? A Musing on the Ordained Life
Didn’t You Used to Be a Minister? A Musing on the Ordained Life
Last updated on: June 5, 2016 at 8:04 am by James Ford
Didn’t You Used to Be a Minister? A Musing on the Ordained Life 2016-06-05T08:04:34-07:00 James Ford
Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.
Yesterday I posted a musing on Facebook about walking into the guest/extended library/sewing/and miscellaneous grab bag room to iron a shirt, and found myself staring at my framed diplomas and ordination certificates (yes, there are two, Unitarian Universalist and Soto Zen) leaning against the bookshelf. After twenty-five years, as of today, there will be no office to hang them up in. The moment was nostalgia, and, a bit of a looking forward.
Then a colleague whom I quite respect responded “Once a minister, always a minister.” She added in, in case I didn’t get it, “You can’t be un-ordained.”
That set up a cascade of thoughts, mostly coherent.The first of those thoughts was, “Well, yes you can be un-ordained.” Both of these traditions have mechanisms for un-ordaining people for cause. In the west it’s called de-frocking.
My next thought was about the range of opinion about what ordination is, and why would we even pose the idea that one cannot be un-ordained. After all there are plenty of ex-librarians, ex-bartenders, ex-cops out there. I suspect it is a grand mix of how we identify with what it is we do and the history of ordination.
In the West in the Christian church there are two major views on this, and I find with some twists and turns they’re a pretty summary of how most people in most cultures deal with their technicians of the sacred.
The first view is that ordination is a special mark on the soul, that by the act of ordination one becomes “a priest forever.” This is tied up in the Catholic and Orthodox myth, also shared by many Anglicans, and even some Lutherans, of apostolic succession. Here that technician is charged with standing between the unseen world and our visible one. As it relates to ordination this view is called “ontological.” That is the actual being of the person who is ordained has been changed.
Here I speak of myth not in that sense of “an unfounded or false notion,” which remains secondary at good old Merriam-Webster, but, rather, “a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon.” For me, and how I use it in my writing is that a myth is a story that tells us something about ourselves. In the best sense something true, although sometimes a lie, and most commonly, some mixture.
There is however, a visceral reaction to this view and all its complexities, which while about as old as the ontological view has particularly marked most of Reformation understanding of ordination. It is called “functional.” That is, we are what we do. There is no substantive difference between a minister and a congregant, beyond, that is, the specific tasks that one has been charged to do. Hopefully, prepared, and charged to do. But prepared or not the technician of the sacred comes from the people, does the tasks asked of her or him, and then returns to the people.
Me, when caught up in conversations among ministerial colleagues of various sorts, I’ve held this later view pretty consistently. Particularly as a Buddhist who doesn’t believe in some soul that can be marked. But also out of a visceral reaction to the ugly side of clericalism.
However. And. But. One of those words. It is messy.
I should acknowledge here I actually have other ordinations besides my UU and my Zen ones. At various points in my life I was made a cherag of the Universal Worship in the tradition established by the Sufi Hazrat Inayat Khan, and I have several ordinations within the independent sacramental tradition. While I don’t do the things these ordinations are about, they are also part of my formation both as a pilgrim on the great journey, and my work as one of those technicians of the spirit.
Also, I guess this long time and obvious obsession speaks to something about me from, well, from just about forever. That said, mostly, I see myself as a UU minister and as a Zen priest. I made my living as a UU minister for the past twenty-five years. It and its obligations consumed much of my life, and within my heart shaped much of who I am. And the Zen thing, well, it has larded through everything I do, and I mean everything for the past, well beginning to look at fifty years. There has not been a time in my adult life from my late teens when the teachings and practices of Zen have not been near the heart of it all.
So, I should also hold up that Zen part. For Japanese Soto what ordination means is complicated by the collapsing of Dharma transmission into ordination. Throughout Zen’s history these have been two different things. Ordination was originally into the monastic life, and with that one may also take on various clerical obligations. But, Dharma transmission was something else, and much rarer. It was an acknowledgment of the deepest mastery of the path. Throughout East Asia this division between monastic ordination available to nearly anyone, and Dharma transmission reserved for a rare number of people, continues. Except in Japan. In Japan while ordination has monastic elements it is today more like ministry as that is understood in the west. The ordained for the most part function as temple priests. Dharma transmission, which throughout the history of Zen was reserved as a mark of spiritual mastery in Japanese Soto becomes an early stage rank passed through by everyone who becomes a temple priest. And the myth of Dharma transmission carries forward in ways vaguely similar to the Western idea of apostolic succession, certainly similar in the sense that it is supposed to be more than what some might call “mere” function. Although what exactly is far from clear.
As I believe I said earlier, the world is messy. No doubt. And things are rarely reducible to simple assertions, certainly not the matters of the human heart.
So, all this said, in what sense am I as of today an “ex-minister?” Well, for one thing, I remain a Zen priest. Although with some twists. I come out of a reformation going on within Japanese Soto, that has arisen out of an awareness of a problem when “everyone” gets Dharma transmission. (This is not a criticism of the primary practice of Soto – with its attention to every action as the manifestation of the Buddha – but only with how the teachers, the guides, are acknowledged) My primary focus as a person of Zen within this reformed perspective is the cultivation of and transmission of koan introspection. While Dharma transmission within the Soto lineages that have re-introduced koan introspection remains more common than say in Rinzai, it is an attempt to introduce the spirit of that more ancient understanding. In order to teach one must have had some kind of awakening as evidenced through an ability to pass through the curriculum. Hardly foolproof. These are the workings of human beings, not brought through the intervention of deities. But, coming together as a package that includes the practices, an ethical framework, and a literature of wisdom perspectives deeply investigated, has transformed my life. And I continue to work in that field, cultivating it, and others on this way.
And, even on the UU part, I will continue to have some functions. Sponsored by the minister at the church in Long Beach, their board have formally covenanted with me to be affiliated as a “community minister” among them starting in August. A not particularly clearly defined position, but mostly for me being on call for pastoral emergencies as the minister needs me, together with some preaching. As part of an informal quid pro quo, they allow our Blue Cliff Zen Sangha to meet at the church. Also, I already have an invitation to preach at another UU church in September, and have been contacted by yet another about my availability.
So, as far as functional goes, that continues. For some uncertain amount of time, yet.
But. I do find myself thinking about that ontological thing, as well. And the true part mixed up with the false. The false is easy. No soul. No mark. But I think about the true part.
The true part is there is a bundle of conditions that exists within time and space, marked out for convenience sake as something going on between my birth and my death, and which one can think of as “my” and “I.” There is no abiding substance to this. Of course. The universe is a continues play of causes and effects, all entertained, everything touching everything else. And, for mysterious reason some little bits and pieces come to awareness for a moment. Like all those who can read these words. Like me. As fragile as a butterfly’s wing. But as real as real is.
And, for a very large part of my life the experiences that have shaped my identity have circled around ministry. Mostly the parish ministry of Unitarian Universalism, and the spiritual practice and leadership ministry of Zen Buddhism. Both are a big part of the complex of events, the causes and conditions that will continue forward for some uncertain period of time as “James.” So, in that sense, yes, my ministry can’t actually be undone. Or, at least, not undone until the whole mess comes undone.
What it all will mean from today is going to be different than from what it was yesterday. Of course that’s always been true. But, a bit more true this time than any of those other times.
But, yes, not as an ex-minister.
But, more truly, as the continuation of this bundle of karma that is so grateful to be alive, and witness the world and what is.
Strange and mysterious.
This life, just so strange and mysterious.
And, for it all, I remain so deeply grateful.
Previous Post

June 4, 2016
Zen's Invitation: Doushuai's Three Barriers
Next Post

June 6, 2016 Seventy-two Years Ago, Drowning in Blood, the World Changes
Browse Our Archives
Select a Category A Christmas Carol Abolitionist African-American Ahmadiyya Alan Watts Aldous Huxley Allen Ginsberg Amedkar Jayanti American politics American Zen Anaheim Zen Sangha Anglican Annie Besant April Fool Armageddon Art and Religion artificial intellegence Atheist Awakening B R Ambedkar Barlaam & Josaphat Beatnik Between Bhagavad Gita Bible biography birthday bodhisattva Bodhisattva Precepts Book burning Book of Common Prayer Book of Mormon Brahmo Samaj Buddha Buddhism Buddhist Buddhist Lord's Prayer Butterflies Calendars cartoons cat ChatGPT Chicken Tortilla Soup choices Christian atheism Christian mysticism Christian origins Christian Science Christian Zen Christianity Christianity and Buddhism christmas Christmas Truce Christopher Isherwood Church of Later Day Saints Cinco de Mayo circus covenant critical thinking culture D. T. Suzuki Dalit Buddhism Daniel Defoe Desert Fathers and Mothers dharma talk Dogen Donald Trump Dongshan's Five Ranks Dorothy Day dream Duty Easter ecology Edwin Arnold emptiness Empty Moon Zen Network Episcopal Church Eternal Now Ethics evolution existentialism Faith fantasy Fathers Day film film review fire Five Ranks Folk music food Form and emptiness Four Seals Francis of Assisi Francis Xavier Free thinker friendship George MacDonald Gerald Heard Glenn Taylor Webb God Good Friday Gospel of Gospel of Mark Gospel of Thomas grace Graduate Theological Unioin Graduate Theological Union Guanyin H R Blyth Hakuin Ekaku Hanamatsuri Hanukkah Harada Yasutani Zen Heart Sutra Henry David Thoreau Hermann Hesse Hinduism History and Religion history of religion Holy Spirit home Hospitality Icon Ides of March Isaac Newton Islam Islamic mysticism Jack Kerouac James Luther Adams Jiddu Krishnamurti Joan of Arc Johannes Gutenberg John Donne joke Judaism justice karma kensho King James Bible koan Koun Yamada Kyoto School Lewis Carrol Liberal Christianity Liberal Religion Life Plan Community Liminal literature Literature and Religion Liturgy Lord's Prayer Love Mahatma Gandhi Mahayana Martin Luther King Jr Mary Baker Eddy Mary Magdelene Mary Oliver Mayflower Compact Meditation memories memory metaphor money money and religioin Mormons Mother's Day movie review mysticism mythic Neighborhood Unitarian Universalist Church New Thought Nichiren Buddhism Nonduality not knowing Omar Khayyam Pacific School of Religion pagan Palm Sunday Passover peace Pentecost perennialism Phantastes Philip Kapleau philosophy Pilgrimage poetry Poetry and Religion politics Prayer Precepts Printing Press prophecy prophetic spirituality psychology Pure Land Queer religion queering religion Quietism Ram Mohan Roy rebirth recipe Relationships and religion religion religion and history Religious syncretism Resistance Retirement Retreat review Rissho Kosei Kai Ritual Robert Aitken Roshi Robert Ingersoll Rohatsu Romani religion Rosie the Riveter saints samadhi SanboZen Sangha Satyagraha science science and reigion science and religion science fiction seminary sermon Sesshin Sex and Religion Shinran Sikh Sikh tradition silence Social Justice Socially Engaged Buddhism Society and religion Soto Zen soul spiritual community spiritual practice Spirituality Sufism Suicide superstition Taoism Television Teresa of Avila Thanksgiving theological schools Theosophy Thomas Merton Time Transcendentalism Transcendentalist Trinitarian Trinity Uncategorized unitarian Unitarian Christianity Unitarian Universalist Universalism Vajrayana Vedanta Walking war Willa Cather William Ellery Channing wisdom women and religion women in religion World Teacher Writing zazen Zen Zen Center Zen inspired retriement zen meditation Zen Precepts Zen women
Select a Month October 2026 September 2026 August 2026 July 2026 June 2026 May 2026 April 2026 March 2026 February 2026 January 2026 December 2025 November 2025 October 2025 September 2025 August 2025 July 2025 June 2025 May 2025 April 2025 March 2025 February 2025 January 2025 December 2024 November 2024 October 2024 September 2024 August 2024 July 2024 June 2024 May 2024 April 2024 March 2024 February 2024 January 2024 December 2023 November 2023 October 2023 September 2023 August 2023 July 2023 June 2023 May 2023 April 2023 March 2023 February 2023 January 2023 December 2022 November 2022 October 2022 September 2022 August 2022 July 2022 June 2022 May 2022 April 2022 March 2022 February 2022 January 2022 December 2021 November 2021 October 2021 September 2021 August 2021 July 2021 June 2021 May 2021 April 2021 March 2021 February 2021 January 2021 December 2020 November 2020 October 2020 September 2020 August 2020 July 2020 June 2020 May 2020 April 2020 March 2020 February 2020 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011 December 2010 November 2010 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 June 2010 May 2010 April 2010 March 2010 February 2010 January 2010 December 2009 November 2009 October 2009 September 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 April 2009 March 2009 February 2009 January 2009 December 2008 November 2008 October 2008 September 2008 August 2008 July 2008 June 2008 May 2008 April 2008 March 2008 February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 September 2007 August 2007 July 2007 June 2007 May 2007 April 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 December 2006 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006
Follow Us!
TAKE THE
Religious Wisdom Quiz
What city was the capital of Israel before Jerusalem?
Select your answer to see how you score.
Bethel Hebron Shechem Jericho
Related posts from Monkey Mind
The Great Matter: Walking the Zen Way
Which Is the True Qian? A Koan About...
TRENDING AT PATHEOS Buddhist
Radicals: The Minds We Shape Become the Society...
France is burning… What supposedly began as student protests over poor school...
Questions Concering a Liberation
These questions were connected to hopes for restored national sovereignty, just leadership,...
Grifters of the Lost Ark (again)
The "search for Noah's ark" is a scam. It's always a scam....
Tennessee: Don't Shoot Christa Pike or Anyone Else
Tennessee: Don't Shoot Christa Pike or Anyone Else Tennessee tried to kill...
One of My Weirder Days (Not Today)
The newest episode of Becoming Brigham went up on Monday morning....
Meet Catholic Fantasy Writer Gen Ponce- 60th Interview
As of this article, I have now reached 60 interviews in my...
view all Buddhist blogs
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
- About Us
- 2026 Calendar
- Videos
- Podcasts
- Library of World Religions
- Faith In Media Tracker
- Advertise With Us
- Write for Us
- Privacy Policy
- Terms of Service
- Do Not Sell My Data
- Contact Us
- Radiant Digital
- Manage Newsletter Subscriptions
- Unsubscribe From Notifications
- Sitemap
Copyright 2008-2026, Patheos. All rights reserved.
Subscription Support Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In












