BuddhistCatholicContemplativeEvangelicalGeneral ChristianHinduJewishLatter-day SaintMuslimNew VisionsProgressive Christian
Beliefs
- Buddhist
- Catholic
- Contemplative
- Evangelical
- General Christian
- Hindu
- Jewish
- Latter-day Saint
- More Voices
- Muslim
- New Visions
- Pagan
- Progressive Christian
Topics
- Religion News
- Food and Religion
- Sports and Religion
- Religious Art
- Religious Music and Entertainment
- Religious Events
- History and Religion
- Style and Religion
- Politics and Religion
- Women in Religion
- Recreation Outdoors and Religion
- Business Finance and Religion
- Careers Workplace and Religion
- Education and Religion
- Family Parenting and Religion
- Health Fitness and Religion
- Home and Religion
- Relationships and Religion
- Technology and Religion
- Travel and Religion
Columnists
- Buddhist Columnists
- Business Finance and Religion Columnists
- Careers Workplace and Religion Columnists
- Catholic Columnists
- Contemplative Columnists
- Education and Religion Columnists
- Evangelists Columnists
- Family Parenting and Religion Columnists
- General Christian Columnists
- Health Fitness and Religion Columnists
- Hindu Columnists
- History and Religion Columnists
- Home and Religion Columnists
- Jewish Columnists
- More Voices Columnists
- Latter Day Columnists
- Muslim Columnists
- New Visions Columnists
- Nonreligious Columnists
- Pagan Columnists
- Politics and Religion Columnists
- Progressive Columnists
- Recreation Outdoors and Religion Columnists
- Relationships and Religion Columnists
- Religion News Columnists
- Religious Art Columnists
- Religious Events Columnists
- Religious Music and Entertainment Columnists
- Sports and Religion Columnists
- Style and Religion Columnists
- Technology and Religion Columnists
- Travel and Religion Columnists
- Women in Religion Columnists
Resource Library
- 2026 Calendar
- Library of World Religions
- The 100 Most Holy Places on Earth
- Patheos Answers
- Podcasts
- Videos
- Faith Leaders Database
- Anglican Episcopalian
- Bahai
- Baptist
- Buddhism
- Christianity
- Confucianism
- Eastern Orthodoxy
- Hinduism
- Holiness and Pentecostal
- ISKCON
- Islam
- Judaism
- Lutheran
- Methodist
- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
- New Age
- Paganism
- Presbytarian and Reformed
- Protestantism
- Religion Behind the Scenes
- Roman Catholic
- Scientology
- Shia Islam
- Sikhism
- Sufism
- Sunni Islam
- Taoism
- Zen
- See all religions
Research Tools
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
- Trending:
- Forgiveness
- |
- Marriage
- |
- Consciousness
- |
- Death Penalty
- |
- Election
- |
- Halloween
Catholic and Enjoying It!
- Home
- Catholic
- Interesting and Beautiful Follow-up to our Five Stages of Intentional Discipleship Discussion
Interesting and Beautiful Follow-up to our Five Stages of Intentional Discipleship Discussion
Last updated on: December 28, 2014 at 7:46 pm by Mark Shea
Interesting and Beautiful Follow-up to our Five Stages of Intentional Discipleship Discussion 2014-12-28T19:46:59-07:00 Mark Shea
Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.
A reader writes:
In light of all the flak you’ve been getting with all this Elton John craziness, I thought you might like to hear my experiences as someone who identified as an out-and-proud bisexual member of my college’s gay community before my conversion and am now fully docile to Church teaching on sexuality despite still struggling with feelings of SSA. Bonus for reading this whole really long thing: you’ll get to hear about how you were instrumental in the “docile to Church teaching on sexuality” part. 🙂
Like so many converts, I was first drawn to the Church because of Mary and the magisterium. I disagreed with the magisterium on several points–gay stuff included–but I was over the moon that it actually existed. In my evangelical background, it was all too common for me to hear a pastor saying something that sounded wrong to me but not having any source to fact-check him against other than the Bible. If Scripture didn’t say anything directly on the subject, or if it was an issue like all those oft-cited Levitical laws that seemed like a matter of context, it became a game of he said, she said. I didn’t like that. Even when I disagreed with the Church, I liked having something clear to disagree -with.- And I liked, too, how philosophically consistent the teaching on SSA was; I didn’t agree with it, but I could see the logic of “marriage is between a man and a woman for the following reasons, and therefore gay sex is fornication.” Too many arguments from my own background seemed to involve gays being inherently evil and sinful, which obviously didn’t appeal to me at all, or to crumble completely in the face of “God hates shrimp,” which meant that I couldn’t respect them or genuinely believe they were coming from a place of good faith. The Church was different, and I assumed that I would just spend my time as a Catholic living 99% of my time in faithful union with what she taught and the other 1% praying that some future pope would broaden that horrendously constricting view of marriage.
Because I did think, at that time, that this view of marriage was horrendously barbarous, make no mistake of that–not just because of myself, since as a bisexual I could give up dating women while praying through these issues and still happily date men, but because of my gay friends who didn’t have that option. And I did think that it would eventually change. I didn’t have much under my belt except a few college classes and, eventually, a year of RCIA, so my understanding of how Church teaching does and doesn’t change was pretty muddled. Catholics used to have married priests, right? It used to be that they couldn’t eat meat on Fridays, right? The Church used to look much less kindly on Jews, didn’t they? And, hey, the pope had never said ex cathedra that gay marriage was wrong! So YEAH, this was going to change any day now!
If anyone had tried to confront me head-on with this during my conversion process, if anyone had tried to tell me that nope, sorry, this was non-negotiable, I probably would have headed over to Episcopalianism instead. (I honestly can’t tell you why I didn’t do that in the first place. The rational reason is probably because I was head over heels for the Blessed Mother, and Episcopalians aren’t; I suspect the more accurate reason involves the Holy Spirit.) Even without the head-on confrontation, I was gun-shy. I’d seen some pretty bilious statements from Catholics directed, not only at the idea of gay marriage or even gay sex, but at those of us who had same-sex attraction, even those who didn’t act on it. I wasn’t actively pursuing relationships with women at that point, but my sexual orientation had been a source of both joy and pain for me, and I wasn’t ready to hear even anything as mild as “objectively disordered” because it seemed to put me in a whole different and more odious class of sinner than anyone else. Fortunately, the nun who ran my RCIA program was a wonderful woman. When I told her early on that I was bisexual, half expecting her to throw me out on my rear end or say something that would send me packing of my own volition, she told me that God loved me, the Church wanted to have me, and the question was what I would do with those desires. It was orthodox, it was non-judgmental, and it didn’t send me running for the hills. God send us more people like her.
I was baptized into the Church still believing that the gay stuff was negotiable and would one day change. I was willing to live in accordance with Church teaching until that day inevitably came, but by golly, it was coming! Part of me knew that I was trying to fit a round peg into a square hole–active gay lifestyle and Catholicism were not compatible and never would be–but any time I tried to approach the issue head-on, I would get angry and defensive. Rejection of gay lifestyle, so often, came along with rejection of the gay person. If I “gave up” and embraced Church teaching, I was also embracing those people who said I was a narcissist bent on destroying civilization by turning everyone around me into a homosexual, wasn’t I? Screw that! It probably would have helped me to read Eve Tushnet or someone, but because opposition to gay marriage and opposition to gay people seemed so enmeshed to me, I assumed that she just spent all her time wearing a hair shirt and self-flagellating.
I only came to orthodox views on homosexuality by approaching them obliquely, and completely unconsciously, through a deeper understanding of the sacraments. I’d never been clear on why there couldn’t be women priests–I accepted it, but didn’t get it–until you made the comparison to orange juice baptisms. The sacraments need the proper components, and that’s that. Made sense to me. I internalized that idea and used the argument myself many times. Then, about three years after my conversion, I was reading “Swear to God” by Scott Hahn, and he made some passing reference to the same concept in one sentence and mentioned marriage in the next, and that was when it hit me: every marriage in the Bible, and every mention of marriage, is heterosexual. We can’t mess with the sacraments by bringing in different components, whether it’s orange juice for water or a woman for a man–in ordination or in marriage. Therefore, just as the Church had always taught, as I’d known from the moment I started studying those teachings, marriage is between a man and a woman and therefore gay sex is fornication.
The rest all followed gradually and naturally from that first painful realization; over the following months and years, I came to understand what “objectively disordered” actually means and came to understand and appreciate arguments against gay marriage that I had rejected before. But the point is precisely that it -followed.- I didn’t start by accepting all those arguments. I didn’t start by accepting -any- arguments. I started by listening to a wonderful, Christlike woman who told me that God loved me and the Church wanted to have me. She knew I needed milk instead of solid food at that moment, and that’s what she gave me. And that’s what the pope is giving right now.
My long-winded way of saying: God bless you, Mark, for defending the idea of calling people with love. And a very belated but heartfelt thank you for your part in helping me to stop trying to force that round peg into that square hole.
In Christ,
A reader
—
“My own plans are made. While I can, I sail east in the Dawn Treader. When she fails me, I paddle east in my coracle. When she sinks, I shall swim east with my four paws. And when I can swim no longer, if I have not reached Aslan’s country, or shot over the edge of the world in some vast cataract, I shall sink with my nose to the sunrise and Peepiceek shall be head of the talking mice in Narnia.”
~Reepicheep
Previous Post

November 4, 2014
It's Day 2 of the Semi-Annual Tin Cup Rattle!
Next Post

November 4, 2014 Prayer Request
Browse Our Archives
Select a Category Uncategorized
Select a Month May 2020 April 2020 March 2020 February 2020 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011 December 2010 November 2010 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 June 2010 May 2010 April 2010 March 2010 February 2010 January 2010 December 2009 November 2009 October 2009 September 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 April 2009 March 2009 February 2009 January 2009 September 2006 June 2006 July 2005 April 2005 May 2002 April 2002 0000
Follow Us!
TAKE THE
Religious Wisdom Quiz
What food did Jesus say He is, symbolically?
Select your answer to see how you score.
Salt of the Earth Fruit of the Vine Bread of Life Honey from the Rock
Related posts from Catholic and Enjoying It!
If you want vocations, make disciples
Taking the stages of intentional discipleship seriously
Sherry Weddell's Address to Mundelein Seminary
TRENDING AT PATHEOS Catholic
Rejecting Doom: Christian Hope And Human Action
Christianity is a religion of hope. We are to have hope and...
It’s What Comes From Within Which Matters
One of the most difficult things for us to understand is why...
Why I Choose the Eucharist Over the Sermon
Choose the Eucharist, Not the Sermon What are we supposed to get...
5 Design Elements Found in Spiritually Rooted Homes
Putting Spirituality Into Home Decor Our homes are more than our living...
Credo: A Story of God Told with the...
About 10 years ago, I began to imagine a personal "Credo" that...
The Anatomy of Divine Revelation in Catholic Thought
The claim that God has made Himself known to human beings is...
view all Catholic blogs
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
- About Us
- 2026 Calendar
- Videos
- Podcasts
- Library of World Religions
- Faith In Media Tracker
- Advertise With Us
- Write for Us
- Privacy Policy
- Terms of Service
- Do Not Sell My Data
- Contact Us
- Radiant Digital
- Manage Newsletter Subscriptions
- Unsubscribe From Notifications
- Sitemap
Copyright 2008-2026, Patheos. All rights reserved.
Subscription Support Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In






