BuddhistCatholicContemplativeEvangelicalGeneral ChristianHinduJewishLatter-day SaintMuslimNew VisionsProgressive Christian
Beliefs
- Buddhist
- Catholic
- Contemplative
- Evangelical
- General Christian
- Hindu
- Jewish
- Latter-day Saint
- More Voices
- Muslim
- New Visions
- Pagan
- Progressive Christian
Topics
- Religion News
- Food and Religion
- Sports and Religion
- Religious Art
- Religious Music and Entertainment
- Religious Events
- History and Religion
- Style and Religion
- Politics and Religion
- Women in Religion
- Recreation Outdoors and Religion
- Business Finance and Religion
- Careers Workplace and Religion
- Education and Religion
- Family Parenting and Religion
- Health Fitness and Religion
- Home and Religion
- Relationships and Religion
- Technology and Religion
- Travel and Religion
Columnists
- Buddhist Columnists
- Business Finance and Religion Columnists
- Careers Workplace and Religion Columnists
- Catholic Columnists
- Contemplative Columnists
- Education and Religion Columnists
- Evangelists Columnists
- Family Parenting and Religion Columnists
- General Christian Columnists
- Health Fitness and Religion Columnists
- Hindu Columnists
- History and Religion Columnists
- Home and Religion Columnists
- Jewish Columnists
- More Voices Columnists
- Latter Day Columnists
- Muslim Columnists
- New Visions Columnists
- Nonreligious Columnists
- Pagan Columnists
- Politics and Religion Columnists
- Progressive Columnists
- Recreation Outdoors and Religion Columnists
- Relationships and Religion Columnists
- Religion News Columnists
- Religious Art Columnists
- Religious Events Columnists
- Religious Music and Entertainment Columnists
- Sports and Religion Columnists
- Style and Religion Columnists
- Technology and Religion Columnists
- Travel and Religion Columnists
- Women in Religion Columnists
Resource Library
- 2026 Calendar
- Library of World Religions
- The 100 Most Holy Places on Earth
- Patheos Answers
- Podcasts
- Videos
- Faith Leaders Database
- Anglican Episcopalian
- Bahai
- Baptist
- Buddhism
- Christianity
- Confucianism
- Eastern Orthodoxy
- Hinduism
- Holiness and Pentecostal
- ISKCON
- Islam
- Judaism
- Lutheran
- Methodist
- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
- New Age
- Paganism
- Presbytarian and Reformed
- Protestantism
- Religion Behind the Scenes
- Roman Catholic
- Scientology
- Shia Islam
- Sikhism
- Sufism
- Sunni Islam
- Taoism
- Zen
- See all religions
Research Tools
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
- Trending:
- Forgiveness
- |
- Marriage
- |
- Consciousness
- |
- Death Penalty
- |
- Election
- |
- Halloween
Catholic and Enjoying It!
- Home
- Catholic
- Tortured Theology
Tortured Theology
Last updated on: December 29, 2014 at 12:18 am by Mark Shea
Tortured Theology 2014-12-29T00:18:43-07:00 Mark Shea
Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.
Here’s a little piece I just wrote for Intercollegiate Review on “Tortured Theology“, exhorting conservatives (and particularly conservative Christians) to at long last give up their rationalizations for what the Church clearly teaches is gravely and intrinsically immoral. It’s not only the right thing to do, but the smart thing. Win/win.
Speaking of which, had an interesting FB conversation this weekend hosted by the very smart Mark Brumley and centering around this piece by Todd Aglialoro over at Catholic Answers, looking at the perennial question of whether waterboarding rises to the level of torture or not.
It is, I think, an honorable but ultimately wrong-headed attempt to address the issue. It’s honorable because I think Todd is obviously trying his best to think with the Church, something I can’t always say I think about people in these discussions. And trying to think with the Church is pretty much all God asks of us. So I salute him for that.
But at the same time, I think the piece suffers from a fault in its premises that dooms the thought process from the start. It’s something I tried to express last week in response to the piece by Ramesh Ponnuru that was about another aspect of our culture of death: the death penalty. His argument boils down to this: Why not inflict the death penalty? Because we don’t have to.
Seems sensible enough, and yet as I noted, from the death penalty to just war to torture to gun rights (and over on the progressive side of the aisle, with abortion) Catholic moral theology in pop culture pretty neatly divides into two camps. One asks “How can we do the right thing with as little violence as possible?” and the other, in one way or another, asks “When do we *get* to use violence?”
So, for instance, in the ramp up to the war in Iraq, just war teaching was treated not as being obviously ordered toward making war as difficult as possible, but as a series of hoops to jump through which, if you cocked your head right and pretended hard enough sort of gave a pretence of justice so that we *got* to go to war. The death penalty discussion is conducted in the same way. Why do we only focus on the safety of the community? Doesn’t retributive justice mean that we *get* to execute the criminal. Hey, if ensoulment doesn’t happen till the fortieth day, don’t we *get* to kill the fetus before then? When do I *get* to shoot an intruder and under what circumstances? If we *get* to kill people in war, why don’t we *get* to torture them? The image that comes to mind is not of a surgeon struggling desperately to keep from amputating a limb if any other course of action can be found, but of a greyhound straining at a leash, longing to be set free to run toward the goal of inflicting violence as soon as possible and to the limits it is allowed to do so.
It seems to me that that this is exactly what undergirds the entire discussion of whether waterboarding “rises to the level” of torture. Under what circumstances do we *get* to waterboard?
And yet, Catholic moral theology *never* proceeds from the notion that we should seek to see how close we can get to mortal sin without quite committing it. Indeed, in other arenas, to even ask that question is to already reveal a profoundly wrong-headed approach to moral reasoning. The man who asks his gym buddies how much physical intimacy he can have with his hot secretary before it’s technically adultery betrays a profound understanding of his obligation to love his wife.
Asking how close we can get to torturing prisoners likewise betrays a profound understanding of our equally God-given obligation to love our enemies.
Here’s the deal: Mr. Aglialoro’s admittedly provisional conclusion is this:
Since the Church does not specifically address it, how should we morally evaluate something like waterboarding, which is the practice of imposing discomfort on someone with the intention of eliciting proportionately important (e.g., life-saving) information to which one has a right in justice? To put it concretely: You know where there’s a bomb that’s going to detonate and kill innocents. I have a right to know that information. What means can I use to get it from you?
Catholic principles of self-defense say that one may use even lethal means to protect one’s life or the lives of innocents in the face of an unjust aggressor (CCC 2263-2265). It seems to follow, then, that in the same circumstances non-lethal corporal means are at least in-bounds. For is not a person who intentionally withholds life-saving information an unjust aggressor? Even if his aggression is by omission.
Note that: we *get* to kill in war, so why shouldn’t we *get* to torture?
But, in fact, the Church’s teaching is much more nuanced. Essentially, it concedes that killing happens in war, but that the goal is not killing, but the surrender of an enemy. So if you can neutralize an enemy without killing him, do so. That’s why we take prisoners at all. And so, even though a prisoner remains a potential danger (since he can, after all, try to kill his captors and escape, revealing valuable intel to the enemy) the Church *still* commands that prisoners be treated humanely. You don’t *get* to kill a prisoner. And you don’t *get* to kill a combatant. You *have* to kill a combatant sometimes. You never have to kill or torture a prisoner, and if you can avoid it, you should. The principle of minimal violence always holds. Harm and kill only when you have to.
But what about the ticking time bomb? Prescinding from the fact that ticking time bomb scenarios are fantasies from TV shows calculated to gin up support for the use of torture, the reality is this: the ends do not justify the means. So Torture does not become Not-Torture depending on the ends you seek.
Here’s a thought experiment. A deer hunter hears a rustling in the bush. He knows there are other hunters in the woods. Will he escape guilt if he fires into the bush and says “I just wasn’t sure it was a hunter, so I started blasting. Sorry I killed your dad, kid.” No. He is under an absolute obligation to *know* he is not committing mortal sin before acting.
Likewise, the Catholic who is just not sure a fetus is a human person is absolutely obligated *not* to abort.
And the person who is unsure whether waterboarding is torture or not is absolutely obligated not to support or inflict it.
And trying to show it absolutely is not torture is hugely difficult and, in fact, impossible. You have the enormous weight of common sense, international law, and US jurisprudence against you. You have the ghastly documentation of the CIA’s own internal memos.
“We understand that water may enter – and accumulate in – the detainee’s mouth and nasal cavity, preventing him from breathing.”
“An unresponsive subject should be righted immediately.”
“One of the weirdest details in the documents is the revelation that the agency placed detainees on liquid diets prior to the use of waterboarding. That’s because during waterboarding, “a detainee might vomit and then aspirate the emesis,” Bradbury wrote. In other words, breathe in his own vomit. The CIA recommended the use of Ensure Plus for the liquid diet.”
“In our limited experience, extensive sustained use of the waterboard can introduce new risks…Most seriously, for reasons of physical fatigue or psychological resignation, the subject may simply give up, allowing excessive filling of the airways and loss of consciousness.”
In short, as Steven D. Greydanus puts it, “In other words, waterboarded captives actually became so exhausted and crushed that they LET THEMSELVES DROWN.”
If that’s not torture, nothing is torture. And if it is torture our orders as Catholics are clear: The prohibition against torture may never be contravened, according to Benedict XVI.
The biggest tragedy in this whole debate is that it is simply assumed that torture “works”. But in fact, the data points overwhelmingly to the fact that torture (including waterboarding) is not only evil, but stupid and counter-productive. It’s stupid for conservative Christians in a rapidly de-Christianizing culture to support because Obama is still outsourcing torture and has made it clear that he arrogates to himself the power to indefinitely detain and even murder anybody on earth, American citizen or not, he deems to be a national security threat. And if the victim turns out to be innocent, Obama simply declares him to be a terrorist after the fact. All it would take would be a serious bloodbath from a trigger-happy militia group or a Timothy McVeigh, and people like Cliven Bundy, Palin, Hannity, and their supporters might find that the state deems them to be worthy of torture—a thought that never seems to cross their minds.
It’s also stupid because when you get past the rhetoric of political demagogues who shout that opponents of torture want the terrorists to win and our troops to die, you discover that actual Army interrogators loathe the zeal for torture by Know Nothing civilians and politicians who get all their information from TV fantasies. That’s because it yields lousy intel that sends law enforcement on wild goose chases because the victims say anything to make the torture stop. It reduces, not enhances, national security. It also renders real criminals immune from conviction because evidence obtained under torture is inadmissible. It is what Communists, not Americans, do. And it places our troops in grave danger because it is they who will be subject to rape and torture themselves if captured, and it is they will be left to hang for carrying out the orders of politicians like Palin who command them to torture. There’s a reason the Army Field Manual forbids it and a reason we have historically prosecuted our own troops for doing it, including waterboarding.
Mr. Aglialoro maintains a certain agnosticism about whether waterboarding rises to the level of torture. The practical outcome of that agnosticism, like that of the surgeon who is unsure the fetus is a baby or the deer hunter who is unsure that’s another hunter in the bush, is clear: Do not waterboard, abort, or shoot. The goal is not to find out how much violence you *get* to do, but how to do the right thing with as little violence as possible.
And if you are still somehow absolutely certain, in the teeth of all the evidence to the contrary that waterboarding is not torture and is harmless, then bear in mind the first thing that torture regimes always figure out: that if you can’t get a confession (true or false) out of your victim, then the thing to do is to apply your tortures to his wife and children. A man who will die a martyr will often say anything to stop the screams of his little girl.
“But the children are innocent!” you say. So what? This is not about guilt or innocence, remember? Nobody is being *punished* here, right? We’re not torturing because we are vindictive monsters. This is just about using what you yourself insist is a *harmless* technique to get information quickly and efficiently. If terrifying little girls does the trick, then torture regimes will do it in a heartbeat. That’s what is being argued for when we start down that dark path. That and much, much more.
And, by the way, if you think it can’t happen here, it already has: we threatened and tortured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s little boy and girl. Amazingly, some torture apologists look at that and say, “Big deal. We scared them with bugs!”
Parents: lemme ask you: if your neighbor snatched your 7 year old kid and held him against his will in his garage, terrifying him with insects, how long do you think that neighbor should be in prison? We are not at war with children. But the school of moral theology that begins, not with “How can we do the right thing with as little violence as possible?” but with “How much violence do we *get* to do?” has a genius, abundantly documented in human history, for finding that there is no limit to the violence God will bless.
The instruction of the Church with respect to prisoners is clear. It is not “drown them and hope it’s not torture.” It’s treat prisoners humanely and do your interrogation respecting that. And as real interrogators point out, that’s not only right, it’s smart and it works.
Previous Post

May 5, 2014
Prayer requests
Next Post

May 6, 2014 The Lovely Part About the Easter Season is the Conversion Stories
Browse Our Archives
Select a Category Uncategorized
Select a Month May 2020 April 2020 March 2020 February 2020 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011 December 2010 November 2010 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 June 2010 May 2010 April 2010 March 2010 February 2010 January 2010 December 2009 November 2009 October 2009 September 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 April 2009 March 2009 February 2009 January 2009 September 2006 June 2006 July 2005 April 2005 May 2002 April 2002 0000
Follow Us!
TAKE THE
Religious Wisdom Quiz
Who dreamed about the sun, moon, and stars bowing to him?
Select your answer to see how you score.
Joseph Daniel Adam Elijah
Related posts from Catholic and Enjoying It!
Actual prolife Catholics listen to the Church and...
State Department to Shutter Office...
Why have I never heard this story?
TRENDING AT PATHEOS Catholic
Rejecting Doom: Christian Hope And Human Action
Christianity is a religion of hope. We are to have hope and...
It’s What Comes From Within Which Matters
One of the most difficult things for us to understand is why...
Why I Choose the Eucharist Over the Sermon
Choose the Eucharist, Not the Sermon What are we supposed to get...
5 Design Elements Found in Spiritually Rooted Homes
Putting Spirituality Into Home Decor Our homes are more than our living...
Credo: A Story of God Told with the...
About 10 years ago, I began to imagine a personal "Credo" that...
The Anatomy of Divine Revelation in Catholic Thought
The claim that God has made Himself known to human beings is...
view all Catholic blogs
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
- About Us
- 2026 Calendar
- Videos
- Podcasts
- Library of World Religions
- Faith In Media Tracker
- Advertise With Us
- Write for Us
- Privacy Policy
- Terms of Service
- Do Not Sell My Data
- Contact Us
- Radiant Digital
- Manage Newsletter Subscriptions
- Unsubscribe From Notifications
- Sitemap
Copyright 2008-2026, Patheos. All rights reserved.
Subscription Support Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In






