Leah Libresco replies…

Last updated on: December 30, 2014 at 5:43 pm by Mark Shea

Leah Libresco replies… 2014-12-30T17:43:19-07:00 Mark Shea

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

…to my Dan Savage post with a typically thoughtful response that is refreshingly narcissism-free.

Readers will note that the tag on this post, though it deals with homosexuality, has nothing to do with Brownshirts. That’s because Leah does not behave like a bullying thug. This should make clear my first point: which is that I do not and never have said that anybody who self-identifies as gay is a gay brownshirt. Rather, it is people who behave like bullying thugs, who smash windows, intimidate, shout down, and attempt to crush the free speech of others–in short, people who act like brownshirts–whom I grace with the title “brownshirt”.

I realize this offends some people. It offends Leah for instance. But I think that brownshirt behavior should be called by the correct name. And a grown man bullying kids less than half his age and shouting “pansy-ass” at them when they refuse to be subjected to his bullying is, like it or not, acting like a brownshirt.

Note this as well: it is that behavior, not his taking the ocassion to attempt an exegesis of Scripture that is the issue. This is the part of the argument between Leah and me that I find the most interesting. Because what Leah is primarily seeing and reacting to in Savage’s speech is the particulars of his arguments about Scripture, while what I am seeing and reacting to is the fact that he bullied and intimidated a bunch of kids who did him no harm and were simply trying to escape the onslaught of his rage.

There are civilized ways of carrying on a discussion about “What does the Bible say about homosexuality and how much of it applies to us today?” Savage did not employ them. One can note that, yes, Levitical prohibitions against homosexuality are number among prohibitions against shellfish. They are also numbered amongst prohbitions against bestiality. What this means is that the Old Testament doesn’t have a carefully worked out system for distinguishing ritual uncleanness from the uncleanness of sin. I have discussed this in the past here and here.

So pointing to shellfish prohibitions does not really settle the matter, and raises some problematic questions. First, is it advisable to laugh to scorn observant Jews? Gentile Christians will freely acknowledge that we are not bound by the ceremonial laws of Moses. So, for that matter, will observant Jews.

Second, the problem remains, if the Levitical prohibitions against homosexuality and bestiality are of the same weight as eating shellfish, why did nobody in the early Church–or the late Roman, High Medieval, Renaissance, Enlightenment, or Modern Church–get the memo? Paul’s discussion of homosexual behavior is, after all, the normative take on it, with a few tweaks over time to distinguish between the temptation (not a sin) and the act (sin). At the end of the day, it’s the act that concerns the Church. The disordered appetite (like disordered appetites for heterosexual sins) is a concern, of course, as all concupiscence is. (If you are unfamiliar with that bit of theo-jargon, go here.) But concupiscence is *not sin*. It is merely the tinder for sin. To struggle with concupiscence is merely to be human and normal. We all struggle with it. The principle problem with the gay community is that they wish orthodox Christians to pretend that their favorite form of temptation is not temptation, but something to celebrate. That’s not going to happen because the Church is constrained by apostolic teaching on the matter, which reaffirms the prohibition against sex outside the sacrament of marriage, but not the prohibition against shellfish. People like Savage can either face this fact, or they can continue to spend their bullying rage on teenagers, accusing them of getting ready to stone people to death and claiming the right to “defend themselves” against quiet people who got up and walked out rather than be verbally pounded by a coward with a microphone who was twice their age.

I agree that a good faith discussion is necessary and I applaud Leah’s attempt at it. My own attitude toward homosexuality is, it may surprise her to know, pretty relaxed. That is, while I regard homosex as a sin, I don’t regard it as a uniquely terrible sin, nor do I pretend to have any answers about the genesis of the disordered attraction, nor do I think it’s my job to go around telling people with temptations I do not feel what they should be doing, nor do I think that homosex should be punished by civil law, nor do I think that gays who love their partners should be told to stop, nor do I think they should be prevented from having the right to support one another financially or be denied the normal civil protections anybody should have. What I do think, however, is that the gay community is unusually prone to an ugly combination of bullying and narcissism and that Savage is a poster boy for that. More people like Leah and a lot fewer like Savage would do a world of good for them.

PS. I also think (though the current policy of the Church disagrees with me) that celibate, orthodox and committed men with same sex attraction should be ordained if they have proven their commitment to continence and chastity, so as to better and more effectively model chastity and the possibility of a happy life as a Catholic with same-sex attraction. But that’s grist for another conversation.

Uncategorized

Doings on Other Blogs

Previous Post

April 30, 2012

Sad, But Beautiful

Next Post

April 30, 2012 I'll be on Drew Mariani's show today

Browse Our Archives

Select a Category Uncategorized

Select a Month May 2020 April 2020 March 2020 February 2020 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011 December 2010 November 2010 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 June 2010 May 2010 April 2010 March 2010 February 2010 January 2010 December 2009 November 2009 October 2009 September 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 April 2009 March 2009 February 2009 January 2009 September 2006 June 2006 July 2005 April 2005 May 2002 April 2002 0000

TAKE THE

Religious Wisdom Quiz