But you have to admit torture works!

Last updated on: January 1, 2015 at 3:00 pm by Mark Shea

But you have to admit torture works! 2015-01-01T15:00:08-07:00 Mark Shea

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Yes. If, by “works” you mean “forces false confessions out of people as a pretext for war“:

He’d been interrogated successfully, given up huge amounts of information when being treated humanely, even kindly, in hospital and after – but not enough for Cheney. Cheney wanted Zubaydah to tell him what Cheney already knew: the Saddam-Qaeda connection. That would sure foil those pantywaist liberals in the State Department, the Congress and the press who kept asking for proof – as if proof were needed in such an emergency. And so Zubaydah was strapped to a waterboard to force a fake casus belli out of him. Here is the relevant section from the Bybee memo:

The interrogation team is certain that he has additional information that he refuses to divulge. Specifically, he is withholding information regarding
terrorist networks in the United States or in Saudi Arabia and information regarding plans to conduct attacks within the United States or against our interests overseas.

But those in the “interrogation team” had no such certainty, according to Ali Soufan, who was part of it. And David Rose subsequently discovered what Bush and Cheney got out of the torture session, once the professional interrogators had been ushered out:

Rose quotes a Pentagon analyst who read the transcripts from the interrogation: “Abu Zubaydah was saying Iraq and Al-Qaeda had an operational relationship. It was everything the administration hoped it would be.” That analyst did not then know that the evidence was procured through torture. “As soon as I learnt that the reports had come from torture, once my anger had subsided I understood the damage it had done,” the analyst says.

We still have memos and a bureaucratic paper trail. But we don’t have the tapes of those torture sessions which were destroyed – yes this is a Hollywood movie – by the CIA.

Note the double stupidity: Zubaydah had already given up tons of information via normal, humane interrogation methods. But the Administration wanted that connection between Saddam and Al-Quaeda, whether it existed or not–and they got it.

This is part of why the argument “Since the victim is in charge of how many times he is tortured, waterboarding somebody 183 times must not be torture” is so preternaturally stupid. It turns out (surprise!) that the torturer is in charge, not the victim. And part of the reason he tortures is very often to get the prisoner to say what he wants to hear, not what is actually true.

Funny thing: we also tortured another guy named Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi for a similar confession. What became of him?
Golly, it’s the strangest thing: a guy who’s testimony could assist in prosecuting war criminals “went missing” even though he was in CIA custody–till he turned up dead yesterday in a Libyan jail, an apparent “suicide”.

For this, the prolife movement is selling its soul. It sends you to hell *and* it gives you disastrously worthless crap for intel besides.

To get the man’s soul and give him nothing in return — that is what really gladdens Our Father’s heart.” – Uncle Screwtape

Of course, somebody will point me to Obama’s remarks suggesting that “some” useful intel was gotten by torture, so there! Prescinding from the fact that it is incredible and disgusting to watch prolifers suddenly turn to Obama(!) as a paragon of consequentialist moral reasoning, I simply reply that the odds are not entirely against finding an occasional penny if you hold your breath, dive into enough overflowing septic tanks and grope around down there. But sensible people realize that there are better and more cost-effective ways to get the job done.

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