Buddhist Catholic Contemplative Evangelical General Christian Hindu Jewish Latter-day Saint Muslim New Visions Progressive Christian

Beliefs

Topics

Columnists

Resource Library

Research Tools

Video

Podcasts

Thought Readers

Faith In Media Tracker

Newsletters

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Follow Patheos

Home
Pagan
Facts and Reason in Paganism – Avoiding Materialist Assumptions

Facts and Reason in Paganism – Avoiding Materialist Assumptions

Last updated on: November 21, 2017 at 10:50 am by John Beckett

Facts and Reason in Paganism – Avoiding Materialist Assumptions 2017-11-21T10:50:02-06:00 John Beckett

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

I’ve had more than my share of criticism from atheists lately. That’s fine. Answering their critiques helps me refine my own beliefs and the reasoning behind them.

Not all the atheists are arguing in good faith. Some of them are “sealioning” – constantly moving the bar and changing the subject to continue the argument, either because it gives them a juvenile sense of control or because they don’t want to admit a theistic viewpoint has merit. My patience with them is limited.

But in the debates it’s become apparent that there’s a misunderstanding about what constitutes facts and reason. It’s important to clear up these misunderstandings, not so we can win arguments with atheists (let’s be honest – that’s fun but it’s not very important) but so the Pagan beliefs and practices that are so important to us remain on a firm foundation of both experience and reason.

Fantasy is pleasant and enjoyable, and it can be inspiring. But it can only take us so far. Our deepest responses to the Big Questions of Life need to be grounded in reality. But the question of what constitutes reality is often confused by unstated materialist assumptions.

Materialist assumptions are assumptions, not facts

Materialism is not consumerism. Materialism is the philosophical assumption that all that exists is matter and the products of its interactions. It reduces human experiences of love and beauty to the interactions of brain chemistry. It assumes that Gods and spirits not only do not exist, they cannot exist.

Some scientists believe that quantum physics disproves materialism. I’m not sure it does, and in any case I’m very uncomfortable invoking quantum physics to “prove” anything. As a field of science, it’s still in its infancy. But whether it does or it doesn’t, materialism remains an assumption of science (or rather, of many scientists), not a finding of science.

So when someone says “there’s no way magic could work” what they’re really saying is “there’s no way magic could work in a materialist universe.” Magic could work by the intercession of Gods and spirits, but materialism refuses to consider that possibility. It says there is no evidence, but it excludes non-material evidence. All the times magic does work are dismissed as coincidences and confirmation bias, because the evidence points toward conclusions that invalidate their materialist assumptions and they refuse to question them.

That isn’t science – it’s claiming science proves something when it doesn’t.

Materialism need not lead to nihilism. Naturalists, humanists, and other non-theists take the assumptions of materialism and say “yes, and life is still beautiful and meaningful.” That’s a valid spiritual path, and for some, the only spiritual path they can embrace with integrity. But like all religious and philosophical paths it’s based on foundational assumptions that are ultimately unprovable.

Evidence: separate facts from interpretation

Some materialists like to say our religious, spiritual, and magical experiences aren’t real. Those people are absolutely wrong – these experiences are undeniably, unquestionably real. It is our interpretations of these experiences that are open to debate. Unfortunately some people can’t seem to separate facts from interpretations of the facts.

Last June I saw a green glowing bird. It is something that many people say cannot exist, but there it was.

Let me be as precise and as non-presumptive as I can. I saw something that looked and acted like a bird. It was green, and it was glowing in a way that living, this-world creatures just don’t do. It was in a place where there are no native birds that are green, and it was with a large group of other birds that appeared to be of the same species, except they weren’t green.

The skeptical commenter “Guest” listed a variety of materialist explanations for this experience (and did so respectfully, which I appreciate). I described why each explanation didn’t fit, and why my Otherworldly explanation makes the most sense to me.

That I saw something is a fact. My interpretation of it is an opinion about which reasonable people can have reasonable disagreements. But reasonable disagreements should only be around the interpretation, not around the facts of the experience.

Too often we do this to ourselves. We have a religious or magical experience, we are unable to come up with a “proper” materialist explanation for it, and so we start to tell ourselves it wasn’t real. It didn’t really happen.

We gaslight ourselves. Or we stand by as other do it to us.

Our experiences are real. Let’s explore all possible interpretations, and if the facts lead us to an ordinary this-world explanation, so be it. Sometimes a mysterious light in the middle of the night is just a neighbor playing with a flashlight.

But sometimes it isn’t.

Reason is the proper attribution of cause and effect

Another recent complaint was that my arguments have no reason or reasoning in them. This complaint incorrectly conflates reason with materialism. Reason and reasoning are a process – materialism is an assumption.

My experience of the green glowing bird was the effect. What was the cause? I eliminated the skeptical explanations, for the reasons listed in that post and its comments. I considered reports of similar experiences from other people who I trust to relay them accurately. I considered the lore of our ancestors, who weren’t so caught up in looking “educated” and “sophisticated” as we are. I considered other, similar experiences of my own. That line of reasoning led me to conclude (tentatively, since we can never be sure about such things) that the Otherworld is bleeding over into this world.

I don’t expect everyone to agree with this reasoning. A skeptic can argue that one of the possibilities I rejected is a more likely cause. They might be right. But to argue that there is no reason in that assessment is to argue that reason and materialism are the same things, and they are not.

I can’t prove the Gods are real. I can prove that my life is better (more meaningful and less fearful, though certainly no easier) since I began this Pagan journey. It is a very reasonable (i.e. – properly connecting cause and effect) thing for me to be a Pagan, even if I can’t convince skeptics of the absolute truth of my beliefs and practices.

Reason is a process that does not belong to materialists.

The burden of proof is on the prosecutor

The American legal system is hardly a paragon of justice. But it does have some concepts that are useful in our religious debates.

In a criminal case, where someone’s life and liberty are at stake, the defendant is presumed innocent and the jury must be convinced of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. In practice, the deck is heavily stacked against defendants, but that’s another rant for another time. In theory, though, unless the jury is absolutely convinced, the defendant must be acquitted. A criminal charge places a heavy burden of proof on the prosecutor.

If someone claims their religion – or lack thereof – is the One True Way, then they’re taking the role of prosecutor and they have that high burden of proof. If they’re asking someone to abandon beliefs and practices that are deeply meaningful, and in some cases reflect tribal identity dating back centuries (as with the world’s remaining indigenous religions), it’s up to them to provide convincing evidence why anyone should do that.

“My holy book says my God will send you into eternal torment when you die” is hardly proof beyond a reasonable doubt. “Your beliefs have no evidence (that I approve of)” isn’t either.

This is a Pagan blog, written for a Pagan audience – I’m not trying to convert anyone. I don’t have to prove a thing to atheists, or to fundamentalist monotheists. I won’t think less of anyone if they decide to read an atheist blog instead. I welcome honest questions, and if anyone thinks I’m missing something, I want them to point it out. I want to challenge my religion so I can make it as robust as it can be.

But if anyone expects me to change my beliefs, the burden of proof is on them, not on me.

Evidence is more than double blind peer reviewed studies

I have to laugh when I see people claiming there’s “no evidence” that magic works. If you want to see evidence for magic, then practice magic. Magic doesn’t work on belief, it works on action. Do the spells and you’ll get results.

You have to do the spells right. Waving a wand like a baboon brandishing a stick isn’t going to accomplish anything. And understand that magic doesn’t make things happen – it increases the odds that things will happen. It is possible to do everything right and still not get the result you expect. So working magic once or twice isn’t going to prove anything to anyone.

But over time, the results start to add up. Eventually these results are impossible to ignore – it’s easier to accept that magic is real than to continue with denials and rationalizations.

The same thing is true for first-hand experiences of Gods and spirits. Once might be a coincidence and twice might be self-delusion, but as experiences start to stack up, it gets harder and harder to come to any conclusion other than they’re as real as real can get.

And some experiences are so strong and so real that doubt isn’t even possible anymore. Gordon White calls this “becoming invincible.” I would use other words, but he’s right – at some point you simply can’t go back to materialist thinking.

You decide your standard of evidence, I’ll decide mine

We are not free to believe anything we like. Some things are demonstrably false. Others are so unlikely they’re not worth our time and effort. But in the realm of religion and spirituality, much is uncertain.

The choice of what religion to follow and how to follow it is deeply personal. Each of us must make our own decisions, and we must make them based on the standards of evidence that make sense to us.

I have Pagan friends who happily practice magic but who find insufficient evidence for the existence of many real Gods. I have other Pagan friends who join me in the worship of the Gods but who find magic either implausible or impious. Their beliefs are no less reasonable because they are different.

And if someone really and truly believes their materialist assumptions? That is also a reasonable approach, and one I respect even if I don’t share it.

But facts and reason are not exclusive to materialism, and materialists should not be surprised when I develop and defend my beliefs and practices based on my experiences and my interpretations of them.

I welcome comments from all religious and spiritual perspectives, so long as they contribute to a polite and helpful conversation. Comments that include sarcasm, ridicule, religious proselytizing, or personal attacks will be deleted without warning. Feel free to defend materialism if you so choose, but comments that exhibit the kind of unreflective materialist assumptions described in this post (“you have no evidence!”) will be deleted with glee.

Foundations and Context

Previous Post

November 14, 2017

The Mead Tenders Who Weren’t There

Next Post

November 19, 2017 Celtic Tarot – A Review

Browse Our Archives

Select a Category Books Community CUUPS Druidry Foundations and Context Gods and Goddesses Magic Myth Nature Ritual Spiritual Practice Theology Travel Uncategorized Videos

Select a Month October 2026 September 2026 August 2026 July 2026 June 2026 May 2026 April 2026 March 2026 February 2026 January 2026 December 2025 November 2025 October 2025 September 2025 August 2025 July 2025 June 2025 May 2025 April 2025 March 2025 February 2025 January 2025 December 2024 November 2024 October 2024 September 2024 August 2024 July 2024 June 2024 May 2024 April 2024 March 2024 February 2024 January 2024 December 2023 November 2023 October 2023 September 2023 August 2023 July 2023 June 2023 May 2023 April 2023 March 2023 February 2023 January 2023 December 2022 November 2022 October 2022 September 2022 August 2022 July 2022 June 2022 May 2022 April 2022 March 2022 February 2022 January 2022 December 2021 November 2021 October 2021 September 2021 August 2021 July 2021 June 2021 May 2021 April 2021 March 2021 February 2021 January 2021 December 2020 November 2020 October 2020 September 2020 August 2020 July 2020 June 2020 May 2020 April 2020 March 2020 February 2020 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011 December 2010 November 2010 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 June 2010 May 2010 April 2010 March 2010 February 2010 January 2010 December 2009 November 2009 October 2009 September 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 April 2009 March 2009 February 2009 January 2009 December 2008 November 2008 October 2008 September 2008 August 2008 July 2008 June 2008

TAKE THE

Religious Wisdom Quiz

What animals were Daniel thrown to for worshiping God?

Select your answer to see how you score.

Dogs Lions Wolves Bears