Patheos

BuddhistCatholicContemplativeEvangelicalGeneral ChristianHinduJewishLatter-day SaintMuslimNew VisionsProgressive Christian

Beliefs

Topics

Columnists

Resource Library

Research Tools

Video

Podcasts

Thought Readers

Faith In Media Tracker

Newsletters

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Patheos

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Follow Patheos Patheos on Facebook Patheos on YouTube

Jesus Creed

Church: Institution for Overactive Consciences?

Last updated on: October 24, 2012 at 5:32 am   by Scot McKnight

Church: Institution for Overactive Consciences? 2012-10-24T05:32:54-05:00 Scot McKnight

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

So what is that many of us are members of, participants in? Just what is this thing called “church”? I like it when pastors theologize, so when Andy Stanley gets to doing theology I want to see how he thinks. I know how he preaches; I know how he writes; but in his new book Deep & Wide he ponders what a church is.

First, he contends a church is a movement and not an institution; its organic and not an organization. Too many think the church is an institution for overactive consciences (51).  Many of us (count me one of them) run from such institutions. He defines a church as a “gloriously messy movement with a laser-focused message and a global mission” (51).  He gives us a sketch of church history that would sound like Yoder’s polemic against Constantine if I didn’t know this is an old Baptist story. He’s got good points; it’s more complex, but he’s right that Constantine’s engines made the church far more institutional, hierarchical and authoritarian than it had been. Stanley’s thesis is that the word “church” (ekklesia) in the NT means “gathered ones” and “congregation” and not a building, not an institution — it’s a movement, not a location. His story means the Reformers, beginning with Tyndale, recovered the movement element.

What do you think of his grace and truth approach to ministry?

If I chose one good example of this I’d choose Acts 15, as does Andy. How does grace and truth manifest itself in the Jerusalem Council’s decision? Was that simple exegesis or was that a step beyond the Bible? Andy quotes Acts 15:19 and says “churches shouldn’t do anything that makes it unnecessarily difficult for people who are turning to God” (91).

Second, Stanley offers what I think is one of the finest essays into the tension and messiness of genuinely Spirit-led pastoral theology. His theme is that gospel work is about “truth and grace” and not one or the other, not one first and the other second, but always both at the same time.

When the word “and” is added, tension arises. He opens with a classic story about his father’s church and the gay parade and that they decided to let everyone out early and they were to exit the back of the church so they’d miss the parade… but they let out on time and everyone watched and they saw the Methodists handing out cold water to those in the parade and “It was embarrassing” (71).

Who is the church for? Sinners. Can we welcome the sinners or do they have to get cleaned up first? It’s not “Just as I am” but “Just as I ought to be (and if not I’ll fake it).” That’s not from Andy. “…this is in fact a tension to manage and not a problem to solve or really even a question to answer” (72). Some of this was in italics.  “Churches designed for saved people are full of hypocrites” (74). Conservative churches are big on truth and too often lose grace; liberal churches are big on grace and too often lose truth.

Jesus embodied grace and truth and what he did was neither fair nor consistent.  He gives folks a full dose of truth as in “You’re a sinner and you’re forgiven.”

Living grace and truth is real messy.

North Point’s approach: we “wade in hip-deep and sort things out one relationship, one conversation, at a time” (78). Here are some examples…

they put people in leadership too early… adults learn on a need-to-know basis…. no formal leadership training … we encourage non-believers to sign up for short-term mission trips… they don’t lead…. it doesn’t seem fair … “We let women baptize. I’m not confident with that. I let ’em do it anyway” (80). Andy thinks remarriage is sin and teaches that; they allow remarried couples to lead at every level in the congregation. They don’t do charity work; they support local charities. Big time. “Our doctrinal statement is conservative. Our approach to ministry is not” (81). Got problems? That’s the tension. He reads all the critical mail; he responds personally to the most critical.

Here’s why we need grace and truth: “Either you were a mess, are a mess, or are one dumb decision away from becoming a mess” (82). Grace takes you as you are and welcomes you home. That’s grace and truth.

Church

Previous Post



October 24, 2012

Dealing with the Stress of Ministry

Next Post



October 24, 2012 Not Just Universities


Browse Our Archives

Select a Category Acts of the Apostles Adam Advent Anabaptism Angels Anglican Apologetics Atonement Baptism BCP Prayers Bible Biblical Studies Birds Blogging Bloglossary Bonhoeffer Books Calvinism Christianity Church Church History Coffee Colossians Commentary Recs Conversion Creation Creeds Culture Death Ecclesiastes Economics Education Embracing Grace Emergent Emerging Movement Eschatology Essays Ethics Eucharist Evangelicalism Family Fasting Fathers Fellowship of Differents Footsteps Tour Fun and Whimsical Gospel Grace Happiness Heaven Hell Holy Spirit Irenaeus James Jesus Jesus Creed Job Justification Kingdom of God Law Lectures Lent Liberalism Love and Marriage Mabanteneni Manhood Mary Miracles Missio Alliance MissioLife Missional Missional Jesus Movies and Film New Perspective Northern Seminary OneLife Origins Project Orthodox Parables Pastor's Spouse Pastoring and Leading Pastoring and Preaching Patristics Paul Paul-John Tour Pharisees Pietism Political Theology Prayer and Formation Preaching Problems for Faith Psalm 119 Psalms Public Issues Purgatory Religions Resurrection Revelation Romans Rule of JCreed Science and Faith Sermon on the Mount Sports Ten Commandments Theology Third Way Top Ten Lists Translations Uncategorized Universalism University Ministry Way Out Weekly Meanderings Wisdom Women and Ministry Work Worship Writing & Blogging Youth Ministry

Select a Month July 2021 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011 December 2010 November 2010 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 June 2010 May 2010 April 2010 March 2010 February 2010 January 2010 December 2009 November 2009 October 2009 September 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 April 2009 March 2009 February 2009 January 2009 December 2008 November 2008 October 2008 September 2008 August 2008 July 2008 June 2008 May 2008 April 2008 March 2008 February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 September 2007 August 2007 July 2007 June 2007 May 2007 April 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 December 2006 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 January 2006 December 2005 November 2005 October 2005 September 2005 August 2005 July 2005 June 2005 May 2005 April 2005 0000


Follow Us!

Follow Us on Facebook Follow Us on Twitter



TAKE THE

Religious Wisdom Quiz

What city did the wise men visit to see King Herod before finding Jesus?

Select your answer to see how you score.

Nazareth Hebron Jerusalem Bethlehem

Related posts from Jesus Creed

Evangelical

Rethinking Evangelism Through The Reformation

Jesus Creed

Evangelical

10 Reasons to Go to Church

Jesus Creed

Evangelical

Church: Seven Reasons Not to Go to Church

Jesus Creed

Evangelical

Is Mission an Enigma?

Jesus Creed

TRENDING AT PATHEOS Evangelical

The REST of Your Life: A Creative Wrestles...

This week I had a conversation with a good friend from church....

How the author of the world's best hymn...

I've been working with John Newton for a while now. This makes...

Psalm 130 | Lectio Divina

Long before this Lectio Divina, Psalm 130 - the song - started...

What About the Trees? Another Living Parable

After I finished writing the last article about falling leaves as a...

Why Classical Education Is a Conversation, Not a...

Come and Read: Joy in Classical Education When I was a little...

What Happened at Cornell?

Cornell University has received a great deal of negative publicity and intense...

view all Evangelical blogs

Patheos on Facebook Patheos on YouTube

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Copyright 2008-2026, Patheos. All rights reserved.

Subscription Support Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In

Follow Patheos Patheos on Facebook Patheos on YouTube