{"id":3099,"date":"2024-02-02T22:05:07","date_gmt":"2024-02-03T05:05:07","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/?p=3099"},"modified":"2024-02-03T21:10:22","modified_gmt":"2024-02-04T04:10:22","slug":"matthew-thiessens-a-jewish-paul-part-2-of-the-interview","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/2024\/02\/matthew-thiessens-a-jewish-paul-part-2-of-the-interview\/","title":{"rendered":"Matthew Thiessen’s A Jewish Paul: Part 2 of the Interview"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

We are back for Part 2 <\/strong>of our interview with Matthew Thiessen! Dr. Thiessen recently wrote, A Jewish Paul:<\/a> The Messiah\u2019s Herald to the Gentiles <\/em>(Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2023). In Part 1<\/u> <\/strong><\/a>we discussed this book\u2019s relation to Dr. Thiessen\u2019s earlier work,\u00a0Paul and the Gentile Problem<\/a>,<\/em>\u00a0Paul\u2019s weirdness, and the interpretation of Paul\u2019s phrase, the \u201cworks of the law.\u201d This instalment compares Paul in Acts with Paul in his letters in relation to the law, the translation of \u201cJudaism\u201d in Galatians 1:13, and more:<\/p>\n

Matthew Thiessen holding up his book, A Jewish Paul<\/em>.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\nA Jewish Paul: <\/em>The Interview, Part 2<\/h2>\n**Oropeza<\/h3>\n*******
** You do a good job of showing that Paul is a law-abider in Acts (e.g., Acts 21:23\u201324; 25:8; 28:17), and I agree with you that Luke portrays Paul as law-abiding\u2014he is innocent of the charges against him.<\/p>\n
** *****Paul\u2019s letters, however, pose a different challenge. He speaks in the first-person plural not only to<\/em> but with <\/em>gentiles about \u201cour freedom in Christ\u201d in the context of maintaining Titus\u2019s foreskin\/uncircumcision in Galatians 2:4. Then there\u2019s Galatians 2:21; 2 Corinthians 3, and so on. Is it possible that, in Christ, Paul himself has the freedom to keep and not keep aspects of Mosaic law depending on the company that he keeps?<\/p>\n****

Thiessen<\/h3>\n*****
** One of the challenges in seeking to recover Paul\u2019s thinking about the Jewish law is how to deal with the apparent discrepancy between Acts and Paul\u2019s own letters. Historians rightly argue that one must trust the primary evidence of Paul\u2019s letters over the secondary evidence of Acts when reconstructing Paul\u2019s own thinking.<\/p>\n
** So, if Acts and Paul disagree, we must trust Paul here. I agree with this, but question whether we have understood Paul correctly here. Paul\u2019s letters seem more difficult to understand than the narrative of Acts. Maybe we\u2019ve just misunderstood Paul!<\/p>\n
** Oropeza<\/h3>\n
** That\u2019s both the challenge and excitement about interpreting Paul!<\/p>\n
** Thiessen<\/h3>\n
** But there is one thing that both Paul and Acts clearly agree on\u2014humans are not justified by the observance of the Jewish law. We see this at numerous points in Paul\u2019s letters, including Galatians 2:21 which you mention, and also in Paul\u2019s speech in Acts 13 (vv. 38\u201339). And in 2 Corinthians 3 (cf. Gal 3:21), Paul makes it clear that the law, glorious and good as it is, does not give life to the dead. That\u2019s not the function or purpose or power of the law, but that doesn\u2019t mean it doesn\u2019t have an important role. Obviously in Luke\u2019s narrative, Jewish followers of Jesus, including Paul, are still supposed to and do follow the law.<\/p>\n
** When it comes to Paul\u2019s own claims, we don\u2019t have any obvious statements one way or another in my mind, so we need to extrapolate from other things he says. And this, while necessary, can become an opportunity to import our own assumptions. I think one assumption that is easy to import is our generally negative view of law\u2014law as something that unnecessarily restricts or harshly condemns. Is this how ancient Jews viewed the law? And is this how Paul viewed the law?<\/p>\n
** The \u201cwe\u201d in Galatians 2:4 might suggest that both Paul and gentiles (and everyone?) are free from aspects of the Jewish law. But the only thing we know for sure in this verse is that Paul does not think gentiles are constrained by the Jewish commandment to undergo circumcision, and he is not constrained to tell them that they should be. But this wasn\u2019t a unique legal position in ancient Judaism. Many, perhaps most, ancient Jews didn\u2019t think the Jewish law applied to non-Jews, so there was no need for gentiles to undergo circumcision.<\/p>\n
** Oropeza<\/h3>\n
** *****I\u2019m reminded of the competing views on whether King Izates, a gentile who worshipped the Jewish God, should also be circumcised. For the merchant Ananias, the answer was no,<\/em> and for Eleazar, it was yes <\/em>(Josephus, Antiquities <\/em>XX.2.3\u20135 [\u00a734\u201353]; cf. XX.1.1 [\u00a717]).<\/p>\n

Thiessen<\/h3>\n*****
** Did Paul feel himself free to keep or not keep aspects of the Mosaic law depending upon who he is with? This is often how people have read Paul\u2019s statements about adaptability in 1 Corinthians 9:19\u201323.<\/p>\n
** *****But I wonder just how elastic we are to imagine Paul\u2019s behavior here. I find it historically implausible and morally reprehensible that Paul could have acted like a law-observant Jew to try to impress or win over Jews, but abandoned law observance around gentiles to try to impress or win over gentiles. Were Christians to imagine anyone other than Saint Paul doing something like this, I can\u2019t help but think that we would conclude such a person was deeply deceptive and hypocritical behavior.<\/p>\n

Oropeza<\/h3>\n*****
** *****Paul, I think, would agree that adaptability or accommodation should never resort to hypocrisy. He comes against flattery and being disingenuous (Gal 1:10; 1 Thess 2:5; 2 Cor 1:12).<\/p>\n

The way I read 1 Corinthians 9:19\u201323 is like this\u2014in the same context (1 Cor 8\u201310), Paul charges certain Corinthians to give up their \u201cright\u201d or exousia <\/em>over what they eat to accommodate weaker brothers and sisters who might see them eating idol foods and it become a stumbling-block to them. Adaptability in this case is so that their faith\/trust does not get ruined (1 Cor 8). It is for the purpose of \u201csaving\u201d or keeping the weak saved. Adaptability, then, should be for the sake of not<\/em> becoming the cause of stumbling to Jew, Greek, or the ekklesia <\/em>of God (1 Cor 10:32). Paul does not want to seek his own advantage (symphoros) <\/em>but the advantage of many, so that they might be saved (1 Cor 10:33). (On 1 Cor 8-10, cf. my 1 Corinthians<\/a>\u00a0<\/em>commentary).<\/p>\n

New subject<\/strong>: On pages 40-41 of A Jewish Paul<\/em>, I want to thank you for not blaming the translators of NRSVue regarding their translation Galatians 1:13\u201314. The reason? I was on that translation team for Galatians!<\/p>\n

Like you, I struggle to understand \u0399\u0313oudaismos, <\/em>translated in Gal. 1:13 as \u201cJudaism\u201d (NRSVue, and this was not my choice <\/em>for its translation). The term should be qualified in some sense as pertaining to the way Paul used to be prior to his Damascus experience. It is not that he is abandoning being a Jew. I\u2019m open to suggestions for how to translate the Greek word in the future. Do you have any recommendations?<\/p>\n

Thiessen<\/h3>\n*****
** On the surface, \u0399\u0313oudaismos<\/em> looks like it should be easy to translate\u2014it just looks so much like \u201cJudaism\u201d! But it is such a rare word, appearing only several times before it appears in Paul (2 Maccabees 2:21; 8:1; 14:38; and 4 Maccabees 4:26). In that body of literature, it stands in contrast to Greek and foreign practices being imposed upon Jews by Greeks. My hunch is that the term \u0399\u0313oudaismos<\/em> was coined in the second-century BCE in opposition to the widespread pattern of hellenismos<\/em>, the adoption of Greek customs by those who were not Greek.<\/p>\n
** Whatever the precise connotation in Galatians, I agree with you that it should be read to mean not that Paul has abandoned something called \u201cJudaism\u201d for something called \u201cChristianity,\u201d but that he has changed his Jewish way of living from one form, that shaped by the ancestral customs of the Pharisees, to another, that shaped by the belief that Jesus was the Messiah and had been raised from the dead.<\/p>\n
** Oropeza<\/h3>\n
** I\u2019ve toyed with the translation in the relevant portion of Gal 1:13 as, \u201cformer conduct in the Jewish way\u201d (\u2026 \u1f00\u03bd\u03b1\u03c3\u03c4\u03c1\u03bf\u03c6\u03ae\u03bd \u03c0\u03bf\u03c4\u03b5 \u1f10\u03bd \u03c4\u1ff7 \u1f38\u03bf\u03c5\u03b4\u03b1\u03ca\u03c3\u03bc\u1ff7), but even that does not seem to be specific enough.<\/p>\n
** Thiessen<\/h3>\n
** I think that Paul\u2019s former way of life can perhaps be defined a bit more precisely. The noun \u0399\u0313oudaismos<\/em> is etymologically related to ioudaizein<\/em> (\u201cto judaize\u201d), which means \u201cto act Jewish\u201d or \u201cto adopt Jewish customs.\u201d<\/p>\n
** And something Shaye Cohen has convincingly argued is that -izein<\/em> verbs indicate the action of one person or group adopting the customs of another group. Jews don\u2019t judaize, only non-Jews do. So, I have tentatively suggested that when Paul talks about his former way in \u0399\u0313oudaismos<\/em> here, he is referring to his previous efforts to get non-Jews to adopt Jewish customs.<\/p>\n
** And we see Paul\u2019s acknowledgement that he did at one point in time promote judaizing to gentiles in his statement, \u201cIf I still preach circumcision\u201d (Gal 5:11). Now though, he rejects this program and condemns efforts to encourage or compel gentiles to \u201cjudaize,\u201d as one can see in his harsh words to Peter in Gal 2:14.<\/p>\n
* \u00a0 * *<\/strong><\/p>\n
** Coming next: Part 3 of this Interview\u2026<\/p>\n
** \u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
** *****We are back for Part 2 of our interview with Matthew Thiessen! Dr. Thiessen recently wrote, A Jewish Paul: The Messiah\u2019s Herald to the Gentiles (Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2023). In Part 1 we discussed this book\u2019s relation to Dr. Thiessen\u2019s earlier work,\u00a0Paul and the Gentile Problem,\u00a0Paul\u2019s weirdness, and the interpretation of Paul\u2019s phrase, the […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4338,"featured_media":3102,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1168,1053,1153,448,139,293,383,177,1174,181],"tags":[2184,568,2187,2214,313,2211],"class_list":["post-3099","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apostle-paul","category-book-of-acts","category-book-review","category-interpretation","category-interview","category-jewish-studies","category-law","category-new-perspective-on-paul","category-paul-within-judaism","category-pauline-theology","tag-a-jewish-paul","tag-interview","tag-matthew-thiessen","tag-paul-and-the-law","tag-paul-within-judaism","tag-radical-new-perspective-on-paul"],"yoast_head":"\nMatthew Thiessen\u2019s A Jewish Paul: Part 2 of the Interview<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"We are back for Part 2 of our interview with Matthew Thiessen! 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In Part 1 we discussed this book\u2019s relation to Dr. Thiessen\u2019s earlier work,\u00a0Paul and the Gentile Problem,\u00a0Paul\u2019s weirdness, and the interpretation of Paul\u2019s phrase, the \u201cworks of the law.\u201d This instalment compares Paul in Acts with Paul in his letters in relation to the law, the translation of \u201cJudaism\u201d in Galatians 1:13, and more","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/2024\/02\/matthew-thiessens-a-jewish-paul-part-2-of-the-interview\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/2024\/02\/matthew-thiessens-a-jewish-paul-part-2-of-the-interview\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/2024\/02\/matthew-thiessens-a-jewish-paul-part-2-of-the-interview\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Matthew Thiessen’s A Jewish Paul: Part 2 of the Interview"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/","name":"In Christ","description":"Biblical Perspectives for those who Participate \u201cin Christ\u201d","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/#\/schema\/person\/b07e6aeec7a5fc78bc9e764895dbcd5a","name":"B. J. Oropeza","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/bbe80d07d39759378cc055efb9c2d2ba?s=96&d=identicon&r=pg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/bbe80d07d39759378cc055efb9c2d2ba?s=96&d=identicon&r=pg","caption":"B. J. Oropeza"},"description":"Dr. B. J. Oropeza is a recognized scholar in the area of New Testament studies, the Apostle Paul, and various theological issues. He obtained his Ph. D. from Durham University (U.K.) in New Testament Theology. He is Professor Emeritus of Biblical and Religious Studies at Azusa Pacific University and Seminary (Azusa, California). He has also held positions or has been a scholar in residence at Princeton Theological Seminary, the University of T\u00fcbingen, Asbury Seminary, and George Fox University. He has published numerous books and articles, some of which have been translated into Korean, Vietnamese, Portuguese, German, Croatian, Greek, and Arabic. Among his publications include The Gospel of Paul (Eerdmans, forthcoming); Perspectives on Paul: Five Views (Baker); the Scripture, Texts, and Tracings series (Fortress Academic); Exploring Intertextuality (Cascade); Jesus and Paul: Global Perspectives in Honor of James D. G. Dunn (T. & T. Clark\/Bloomsbury); a three-volume set subtitled Apostasy in the New Testament Communities (Cascade), entries in the Oxford Encyclopedia of Bible and Theology, the Oxford Encyclopedia of Biblical Interpretation, and on the lighter side of things, The Gospel according to Superheroes (Peter Lang). He contributed to the NRSVue translation, is a member of the Society of New Testament Studies (SNTS), and started the Intertextuality in the New Testament section at the Society of Biblical Literature (SBL) national conferences.","sameAs":["https:\/\/azusa.academia.edu\/BjOropeza","https:\/\/twitter.com\/bjoropeza1"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/author\/boropeza\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3099","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/4338"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3099"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3099\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/3102"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3099"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3099"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/inchrist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3099"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}