BuddhistCatholicContemplativeEvangelicalGeneral ChristianHinduJewishLatter-day SaintMuslimNew VisionsProgressive Christian
Beliefs
- Buddhist
- Catholic
- Contemplative
- Evangelical
- General Christian
- Hindu
- Jewish
- Latter-day Saint
- More Voices
- Muslim
- New Visions
- Pagan
- Progressive Christian
Topics
- Religion News
- Food and Religion
- Sports and Religion
- Religious Art
- Religious Music and Entertainment
- Religious Events
- History and Religion
- Style and Religion
- Politics and Religion
- Women in Religion
- Recreation Outdoors and Religion
- Business Finance and Religion
- Careers Workplace and Religion
- Education and Religion
- Family Parenting and Religion
- Health Fitness and Religion
- Home and Religion
- Relationships and Religion
- Technology and Religion
- Travel and Religion
Columnists
- Buddhist Columnists
- Business Finance and Religion Columnists
- Careers Workplace and Religion Columnists
- Catholic Columnists
- Contemplative Columnists
- Education and Religion Columnists
- Evangelists Columnists
- Family Parenting and Religion Columnists
- General Christian Columnists
- Health Fitness and Religion Columnists
- Hindu Columnists
- History and Religion Columnists
- Home and Religion Columnists
- Jewish Columnists
- More Voices Columnists
- Latter Day Columnists
- Muslim Columnists
- New Visions Columnists
- Nonreligious Columnists
- Pagan Columnists
- Politics and Religion Columnists
- Progressive Columnists
- Recreation Outdoors and Religion Columnists
- Relationships and Religion Columnists
- Religion News Columnists
- Religious Art Columnists
- Religious Events Columnists
- Religious Music and Entertainment Columnists
- Sports and Religion Columnists
- Style and Religion Columnists
- Technology and Religion Columnists
- Travel and Religion Columnists
- Women in Religion Columnists
Resource Library
- 2026 Calendar
- Library of World Religions
- The 100 Most Holy Places on Earth
- Patheos Answers
- Podcasts
- Videos
- Faith Leaders Database
- Anglican Episcopalian
- Bahai
- Baptist
- Buddhism
- Christianity
- Confucianism
- Eastern Orthodoxy
- Hinduism
- Holiness and Pentecostal
- ISKCON
- Islam
- Judaism
- Lutheran
- Methodist
- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
- New Age
- Paganism
- Presbytarian and Reformed
- Protestantism
- Religion Behind the Scenes
- Roman Catholic
- Scientology
- Shia Islam
- Sikhism
- Sufism
- Sunni Islam
- Taoism
- Zen
- See all religions
Research Tools
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
- Trending:
- Forgiveness
- |
- Marriage
- |
- Consciousness
- |
- Death Penalty
- |
- Election
- |
- Halloween
Faith-Promoting Rumor
- Home
- Latter-day Saint
- Whassup with that “one-third the hosts of heaven” stuff?
Whassup with that “one-third the hosts of heaven” stuff?
Last updated on: May 9, 2006 at 12:18 am by mogget
Whassup with that “one-third the hosts of heaven” stuff? 2006-05-09T00:18:06-05:00 mogget
Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.
Since that shadowy character HP has lately taken to investigating the even darker figure of Satan in the dim reaches of LDS protology, David J and J. Watkins want to talk about the “third part” thing. And since I’m writing my dissy on Revelation and since I had way too much Mt. Dew after dinner, I’m going to oblige.
First off, the easiest way to handle the whole thing is to rely strictly on DC 29:36-37 and be done with it:
And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the devil—for behold the devil was before Adam. for he rebelled against me saying “Give me thine honor, which is my power, and also a third part of the hosts of heaven he turned against me because of their agency, and they were thrust down and became the devil and his angels;
Anytime Revelation gets called in on anything but its own terms, you will be lucky if you are only tormented by demonic cavalry from the abyss for five months. So if you click “read more,” you asked for it…
Here’s the relevant passage from Rev 12:3-4a:
3 Then another sign appeared in the sky; it was a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadems. 4 Its tail drags a third of the stars of the sky and hurled them down to the earth.
The first sign was the astral woman, dressed in the sun, standing on a moon, and crowned with twelve stars. Her dress is the latest in regal fashion among the cosmic crowd, but her vulnerability overshadows all else: in a very terrestrial fashion this celestial woman is pregnant and cries out in birth pangs and great distress.
The dragon is described in equally cosmic/regal terms: he likewise appears in the sky, has seven crowns and most ominously is so huge, powerful, and inclined toward violence that his tail drags “a third part” of the stars from the sky. Two words in v. 4 are interesting.
First, the word “drags” (syrō) is in the present tense, while the surrounding verbs are aorist (simple past in English). This use of the present is called the “historical present” and it imparts a sense of vividness or drama to stories.
Second, the word ouranos (sky/heaven) is in the singular, suggesting that it should be translated “sky” rather than “heaven.” The point is this: while the dragon is out of reach of folks on the earth, he’s not affecting anything in heaven, either. (BDAG s.v. ”ouranos”)
So you know what? Those stars are just stars and the closest parallel to this idea is what happens with the sounding of the fourth trumpet (8:12). One-third of the sun, moon, and stars were struck so that a third of them became dark and both the day and the night lost light for a third of the time. Whatever that might mean.
OK, Mogget, that is really boring. And you might be making too much of John’s notorious grammar…
OK, but I did warn you to stick with the D&C… There are number of Jewish myths that talk about the fall of a Satan figure. For example, there’s 2 Enoch 29. In this case, God is talking:
But one from the order of the archangels deviated, together with the division that was under his authority. He thought up the impossible idea, that he might place his throne higher than the clouds which are above the earth, and he might become equal to my power. And I hurled him from the height, together with his angels.
These myths have one common theme: the Satan-character falls from heaven because of his pride. This comes ultimately from Is 14:12-15:
12 How have you fallen from the heavens, O morning star, son of the dawn! How are you cut down to the ground, you who mowed down the nations! 13 You said in your heart: “I will scale the heavens; Above the stars of God I will set up my throne; I will take my seat on the Mount of Assembly, in the recesses of the North. 14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will be like the Most High!” 15 Yet down to the nether world you go to the recesses of the pit!
This is helpful because we learn that the name “Lucifer” comes from the Latin translation of the Hebrew hêlēl in this passage. The entire phrase “O morning star, son of the dawn (hêlēl ben šahar), comes from two deities otherwise known from the Ras Sharma texts. I don’t know about the noun hêlēl but the cognate verb means “to shine brightly.” The other term, šahar, is some kind of a deity associated with the dawn. Anyway, in its original context, this passage is a taunt song directed toward a Babylonian king, possibly Nabonidus.
Mogget! Back to the d[oggone] angels, already!
Well OK. But you can still go with the D&C, you know… Anyway, if we let the stars be angels, there’s another problem. The dragon just deposited them rather violently on the earth but the war’s going to be fought in heaven. How about we just use Jude 6?
6 The angels too, who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains, in gloom, for the judgment of the great day.
While we’re on the topic of gloom, the weather was terrible today, but in spite of that I now have thirty baby tomatoes. And check out that adjective “eternal.” I bet it’s an intensifier rather than a temporal indicator, meaning that those are some really mondo chains rather than that they’re going to last forever.
But returning to the immediate challenge, Jude is a step forward: we’ve finally got fallen angels that got that way on their own rather than being involuntarily slammed to earth with no mention of God’s role in the whole process. The problem here is that the angels seem to be in chains, not out running amuck fighting wars, tempting people, and making anti-social nuisances of themselves. And they’re still not in heaven, either.
Look. The stars are angels, they’re an all-volunteer force, and they’re in heaven. Get on with the war!
OK, OK. mumble, mumble, D&C, mumble, you’ll be sorry, mumble, mumble. The next thing is to ask when all this is supposed to have taken place. There are three possibilities:
1) In the pre-existence.
2) At the death and resurrection of Jesus.
3) At some point closer to the eschaton than John’s personal present.
Since I’m finally getting sleepy, you tell me. When does John suggest that the dragon was cast down from heaven?
Previous Post

May 5, 2006
The Effects of the Christ-Event: New Creation
Next Post

May 12, 2006 The Effects of the Christ-Event: Mark’s Thoughts
Recent Comments
Browse Our Archives
Select a Category 2013 Scriptures Administrative Apologetics Atonement Bible Book of Mormon Book Review BYU Doctrine Extra-Biblical Literature Family Feminism Guests History LDS Church History Leadership Marginalia Metaphysics Mormon Culture Mormon Studies Personal Issues Political Philosophy Politics Scripture Sexuality Speculation Spotlights Studying Religion Ten Tidbits The Tenure Track Theology Tips on Applying Series Tips on Being an Independent Scholar Uncategorized
Select a Month June 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 May 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 July 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011 December 2010 November 2010 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 June 2010 May 2010 April 2010 March 2010 February 2010 January 2010 December 2009 November 2009 October 2009 September 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 April 2009 March 2009 February 2009 January 2009 December 2008 November 2008 October 2008 September 2008 August 2008 July 2008 June 2008 May 2008 April 2008 March 2008 February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 September 2007 August 2007 July 2007 June 2007 May 2007 April 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 December 2006 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 January 2006 December 2005 November 2005 October 2005 September 2005 August 2005 July 2005 June 2005 May 2005
Follow Us!
TAKE THE
Religious Wisdom Quiz
What sea bordered the land of Canaan to the west?
Select your answer to see how you score.
Sea of Galilee Red Sea Mediterranean Sea Dead Sea
Related posts from Faith-Promoting Rumor
Slavery in the Eschatological Kingdom
Israel's Past Without the Bible
Mormons and Palestinians: Justice and only Justice
Faith, Scholarship, and Teaching at BYU Series
TRENDING AT PATHEOS Latter-day Saint
Did Prayer Cure His Cancer? Or Was It...
At 4 AM one morning, Joshua W. Brown’s wife awoke to a...
8 Ways a Near-Death Experience Rewires the Soul
Does Consciousness Survive Physical Death? After 50 Years of Research, Dr. Raymond...
Holy Longing: What Our Restlessness Is Telling Us
“One can find so many pains when the rain is falling.” -John...
What this is NOT about. This blog is definitely not about...
Who said the Israelites were God’s chosen? That’s right, they did. Who...
The Spirit World Is the Real World: God...
A Monk’s Wisdom on Body and Spirit I sit with Brother Martin...
view all Latter-day Saint blogs
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
- About Us
- 2026 Calendar
- Videos
- Podcasts
- Library of World Religions
- Faith In Media Tracker
- Advertise With Us
- Write for Us
- Privacy Policy
- Terms of Service
- Do Not Sell My Data
- Contact Us
- Radiant Digital
- Manage Newsletter Subscriptions
- Unsubscribe From Notifications
- Sitemap
Copyright 2008-2026, Patheos. All rights reserved.
Subscription Support Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In






