Did a Brazilian Woman Pray to a Toy of Elrond instead of to God? A Response to Benjamin L. Corey

Last updated on: January 11, 2017 at 4:15 pm by David Russell Mosley

Did a Brazilian Woman Pray to a Toy of Elrond instead of to God? A Response to Benjamin L. Corey 2017-01-11T16:15:08-04:00 David Russell Mosley

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

David Russell Mosley

Description Oberzell, Ortschaft Taldorf, Stadt Ravensburg Kirche zur Schmerzhaften Muttergottes Antonius-Figur des 19. Jahrhunderts Date August 2008 Source Own work (own photograph) Author Photo: Andreas Praefcke

Description
Oberzell, Ortschaft Taldorf, Stadt Ravensburg
Kirche zur Schmerzhaften Muttergottes Antonius-Figur des 19. Jahrhunderts
Date August 2008
Source Own work (own photograph)
Author Photo: Andreas Praefcke

Ordinary Time
11 January 2017
The Edge of Elfland
Hudson, New Hampshire

Dear Readers,

You’ve almost certainly seen it, an article, like this one, which declares that a Brazilian woman has unintentionally been praying to a small figurine of Elrond from The Lord of the Rings. Maybe you laughed, I did a little. Maybe you made good-hearted jokes about St. Elrond and wondered whether St. Frodo existed, as some of my friends did. It was a bit funny and quite adorable. You see, the Brazilian woman in question believed the figurine to be one of St. Anthony, and so she used it as an aid when she prayed to St. Anthony. All good and fun, especially for those who understood that this woman was not praying to the toy but was praying to the saint she believed the toy represented.

When the article first broke I didn’t share it. Mostly because I wouldn’t have been able to keep myself from being a killjoy and pointing just what I have done, that the woman was not praying to the “statue.” Once you make that explicit, it becomes less funny. Sure, a person praying to Elrond, thinking him a saint in the Church would be a bit funny (and a bit sad), but that’s not what was going on here. Still, she was praying to a saint and I know that many of my fellow protestants would take issue with that alone. In fact, one fellow protestant, and fellow Patheos (though on a different channel) blogger, did take issue.

Dr. Corey wrote an article yesterday which he entitled, “When Bad Theology Tricks You Into Praying To A Toy (Should We Pray To Saints?).” The title alone shows that Dr. Corey fell prey to the same mistake all the secular outlets did. He acts as though this woman was praying to the toy, when she was praying to the saint she believed the toy to represent. This leads Corey to go on a diatribe against the practice of praying to saints. He even writes in his conclusion, “This is precisely what we see in this tragic story of the woman who spent years praying to a plastic toy from a movie. She could have spent all that time praying to God, just like Jesus instructed his followers to do.”

You see, Corey sees praying to saints as serving in place of praying to God. He even likens it (in a rather bad analogy) to calling to some guy you once knew in DC rather than call the president directly (if that were on offer to you). Of course, praying to saints doesn’t function this way at all. Rather than being like calling some guy you once knew in DC, praying to a saint would be more like calling the president’s Chief of Staff to ask the president a question. Even this analogy is incomplete, for praying to saints (which is in fact primarily asking saints to pray for you) is not something you do in place of praying to God. It can become that, in which case it becomes idolatry, but to suggest it is that by nature would be akin to suggesting that you can either love God or love your wife but you cannot love both. Instead, of course, in a proper relationship you love God by means of your love for your spouse. It isn’t an either/or.

Now, I know that many of my fellow protestants will not be convinced by this, and frankly, unless we’re willing to admit tradition is or at least can be a source of authority, I’m not sure we can ever fully come to terms with issues like this one. But, let me say a few things in its defense, especially against charges laid out by Dr. Corey.

First, Dr. Corey notes that praying to saints came into the church in the 3rd century along with other crazy ideas. As an example he notes that all Christians prior to the third century were pacifists. Of course, he provides no citations for this. He also ignores the fact that for many of the earliest Christians going to church meant going to the catacombs where other dead Christians were buried. But even if it were explicitly true that we had no evidence of Christians praying to departed Christians prior to the 3rd century this would still be an argument from silence (which it isn’t). You would still need to explain why Christians started praying to saints in the 3rd century when they hadn’t done so prior.

Dr. Corey also, in a strange twist (since he talks about himself as being a former fundamentalist) notes that the Bible nowhere enjoins us to pray to saints and the closest it gets to talking about the issue tells us not to talk to dead people. Interestingly, perhaps the only example of this is when Saul has the witch of Endor call up the spirit of Samuel. In this instance, the practice may have been wrong, but it certainly seems to have worked and Samuel appears to really talk to Saul. Also, Dr.Corey seems to miss the point that the problem was looking to the dead in order to divine future events, not asking holy people to pray for us.

Now, Dr. Corey’s biggest complaint is that this is a practice where you pray to someone else instead of praying to God. As I have noted, the practice is primarily to ask the holy departed to pray to God on our behalf. This practice cannot be suspect. As James writes in James 5.16 “The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective.” Sure, this passage is in the context of healing and confessing sins, but the broader point is this: it is good and right to ask others to pray for you. What’s more, there appears to be the suggestion that some people’s prayer, due to their righteousness or holiness, is more effective than others. Does this passage enjoin us to ask dead Christians to pray for us: no. Does this passage enjoin us to ask others to pray for us: yes. Then, of course, there is the great cloud of witnesses referenced in Hebrews 12. Really, Dr. Corey needs to answer the question of what happens to departed Christians before he can determine whether or not, by the grace of God, they are capable of praying for us (the way even the rich man desired to pray for his brothers in the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus).

There are other things I could say, other points Dr. Corey has made I could attempt to refute. But here is the final point I want to make: If you disagree with the practice of praying to saints, you need to understand precisely what that practice really is, what its origins are, and why you disagree with it. It seems to me that Dr. Corey has not given the time necessary to actually understand what this practice is or why it shouldn’t be practiced. Disagree, by all means, but don’t be like the atheists who argue against a god’s existence that even you don’t believe in.

Sincerely,
David

Being a Catholic Evangelical

Previous Post

January 10, 2017

Suffering from Beatitude: A Reflection on Mysticism from James Martin's Account of St. Bernadette

Next Post

January 12, 2017 Wonder-filled Children and Wise Old Men and Women: Lessons in Vision and Wisdom

Browse Our Archives

Select a Category A Secular Age Advent Apologetics Atheism Beauty Being a Catholic Evangelical Being Catholic Being Deified: Poetry and Fantasy on the Path to God Blogging Book Reviews C. S. Lewis Catholic Imagination Catholic Social Teaching Catholicism Christmas Church Calendar Church Fathers Church Life Community Conferences Cosmology Creation Curdled Words Deification Distributism Easter Economics Education Epiphany Essay Extracts Eucharist Faerie Faeriean Metaphysics Fatherhood Films Folk Liturgy Food and Drink G. K. Chesterton Harry Potter J. R. R. Tolkien Jove King Arthur Language Lent Life Literature and Poetry Liturgy Medieval Theology Music My Publications Mythology On the Edges of Elfland Ordinary Time Ordination Parenthood Parish Patristic Theology Pentecost Politics Prayer Racism Radical Orthodoxy Restoration Movement Sacramental Ontology Saints Science Sex and Sexuality Sophiology Stories The Inklings The Radical Catholic Reimagination of Everything Theologians in the Church Theopoetics Thesis Research Uncategorized University of Nottingham What I'm Reading Writing

Select a Month December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 July 2012

TAKE THE

Religious Wisdom Quiz