{"id":1202,"date":"2024-03-05T06:12:56","date_gmt":"2024-03-05T12:12:56","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/?p=1202"},"modified":"2024-06-15T08:31:42","modified_gmt":"2024-06-15T13:31:42","slug":"women-in-problematic-second-century-groups","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/2024\/03\/women-in-problematic-second-century-groups\/","title":{"rendered":"Women in Problematic Second Century Groups"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

Wikimedia: Livioandronico2013 [2015]<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/p>

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In this article Women in Early Christianity, I want to show how women in problematic early movements appear to have changed how women were allowed to serve. I will offer evidence that points to a probable historical context and timeframe for when NT MSS were changed and the church began to limit the roles of women. [-1-<\/a>]\n<\/p>

We opened this series with an article showing how women followed Jesus<\/a>.
\nJesus broke the rules, allowing women to touch Him, touching women\u2026and allowing women to follow Him along with the men.<\/p>\n

Next, we looked at the apostle Paul, both in Acts and in his letters. Paul followed the example of Jesus, allowing women to be in his team<\/a> using them in various leadership positions.<\/p>\n

We then looked at the problematic verses in 1 Cor 14 about women being \u201csilent\u201d in church<\/a>. The evidence is solid that these verses were added to the manuscript tradition.
\nThe question is:\u00a0 When did this happen?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Women in Problematic Second Century Movements: \nMarcionism<\/h3>\n \ In the late 130\u2019s Marcion comes to Rome. \nIt appears that his father was a bishop in Sinope (modern-day Turkey).<\/p>\n \ Marcion arrived and gifted the church with around $1M (in today\u2019s currency). \nThis large gift (eventually returned to him by the church) likely gave him access to quickly become influential. It also helped to have a father who was a bishop.<\/p>\n \ In the next 2-3 years Marcion was teaching doctrines that were not accepted. When confronted he refused to back down and in 144 AD he was excommunicated.<\/p>\n \ Marcion mixed Gnostic teachings into the church doctrine. His teaching included:<\/p>\n \ \u2013 rejection of the Old Testament \n\u2013 the \u201cgod\u201d of the OT was basically evil\u2026thus, \n\u2013 he rejected almost everything Jewish \n\u2013 Paul alone correctly understood the \u201cnew\u201d covenant of Jesus \n\u2013 only Luke\u2019s gospel (considered Pauline) was acceptable \n\u2013 only Pauline letters were inspired [and he edited out several verses here and there when he considered them to have been added later \u2013 anywhere Paul said anything positive about the \u201claw of Moses.\u201d<\/p>\n \ Marcion is exceedingly important because he is the first writer who draws up a list of \u201cinspired\u201d writings. Marcion\u2019s errors and his list is partly what led the church to begin clearly stating there were \u201cfour\u201d approved gospels and not more.<\/p>\n \ Marcion had a very low view of sex, even in marriage.\u00a0Along with other aspects of his teaching, this reflects his Gnostic leanings.<\/p>\n \ Following Paul\u2019s model\u2026Marcion welcomed women into his churches.\u00a0He had virgin women and widows who were leaders\u2026and preachers.<\/p>\n \ During his lifetime, Marcion established at least a few hundred churches.\u00a0Marcionite churches were still in existence 300 years later.<\/p>\n Marcellina the Gnostic<\/strong><\/h3>\n**** ** ****Around 155-168 AD a woman named Marcellina came to Rome to propagate a version of Gnosticism. We learn of this woman through Ireneaus of Lyons in his work Against the Heresies<\/em> and through comments made by Origen in Against Celsus<\/em>. As with other Gnostic groups, she appears to have held to a libertine<\/em> ethic \u2013 sensual desires were not discouraged, but were somehow affirmed.<\/p>\n Montanism****** \n<\/strong><\/h3>\n ** Around 172 AD a man named Montanus comes on the scene in modern day Turkey. \nThis was a movement quite different from Marcion.<\/p>\n ** Montanus and his followers had experienced the charismata \u2013 falling into something like a trance\u2026speaking in tongues\u2026and prophesying. The gifts of the Holy Spirit were still happening, especially prophecy. Many people in local churches welcomed Montanus and his message.<\/p>\n ** Montanus had two women who traveled with him\u2026Priscilla and Maximilla. Both were prophets. Their teaching was that a \u201cNew Spirit\u201d had come to lead the church\u2026and it has bypassed the bishops [kind of like how Jesus bypassed the Pharisees].<\/p>\n ** They taught and prophesied that Jesus was about to return\u2026SOON. Like Marcion, the Montanists also held sexual abstinence as a sign of great spirituality. Even married couples in their movement were encouraged to abstain\u2026which goes against the teachings of Paul. ******\nThis is a bit like Gnosticism as well.<\/p>\n This\u00a0 movement was rejected, not because of their doctrinal views, nor because of their focus on charismata, but because they refused to submit to the leadership of the bishops. There was also complaints about how the women \u201cchattered in a frenzy\u201d and were given a status higher than the apostles. Given this time period, it also sounds a bit like a bias against women with strong personalities. [-2-<\/a>]\n<\/p> The Church Circles the Wagons<\/strong><\/h3>\n********* ** It appears to me that things began to change in primitive Christianity towards the end of the second century before<\/em> most churches\/clergy had collections of NT writings. The texts were out there, but few church leaders would have more than a few copies of NT writings.<\/p>\n ** *********Because of the threat of Gnosticism (and movements like Marcion and Montanus)\u2026a \u00a0fear that women might have too much influence apparently pushed some leaders to focus on ways to set limits to what the women in the Church were allowed to do.<\/p>\n Women Shall Keep Silent<\/h3>\n The Church began to form rules to restrict the role of women in the latter part of the second century.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n The first literary mention of \u201cwomen being silent in church\u201d (referring to 1 Cor\u00a0<\/em>14:34-35) by any early Christian writer is around 206 AD by Tertullian. Interestingly, Tertullian, the great Christian writer (formally trained as a lawyer) ended up joining the Montanists around a dozen years after he writes On Baptism<\/em>. [-3-<\/a>]\n<\/p> In my prior article \u201cAre Women Supposed To Be Silent In Church?<\/a>\u201d I presented the evidence of how the earliest MSS must have been edited.<\/p>\n Theory of a Change in the Early Church<\/h3>\n************* ** There seems to be clear evidence of when this change must have happened: \n1. The lack of any reference in the early church writers prior to Tertullian for women to remain \u201csilent\u201d or \u201cquiet\u201d in church around 206 AD.<\/p>\n ** 2. The use of women in the two earliest \u201cheretical\u201d or \u201cheterodox\u201d movements (Marcion and Montanus), both dating earlier than 180 AD.<\/p>\n ** *************3. The threat of Gnosticism in general and Marcellina as a female \u201cGnostic\u201d leader specifically.<\/p>\n AND,************* *************\n4. The evidence that one of the earliest MSS families (Western \u201cD\u201d or Codex Bezae) was clearly edited to be less \u201cwomen friendly.\u201d [-4-<\/a>]\n<\/p> The evidence points to the early Western MSS being edited to be less \u201cwomen friendly\u201d after<\/em> the 180\u2019s and prior<\/em> to Tertullian. The excellent 1998 article (cited in note 4) by Gilles Quispel certainly points in this direction:<\/p>\n \u201cThe text of Luke\u2019s Acts of the Apostles was so heavily edited that its Western revision amounts to a second, revised edition. Only the Apocalypse of John and the so-called Pastoral Letters of James, Peter, and John escaped the hands of Western correctors, which all must have done their work after Marcion (? 144 C.E.), and before the end of the second century\u2026\u201d\u00a0 Quispel, ibid. p.357<\/p>\n It appears that after experiencing the struggle for \u201corthodoxy\u201d with these \u201csects,\u201d the church made a strategic move to drastically limit the leadership roles of women.************* *************\nThe focus of this article is not on Marcion, Marcellina or Montanus. My focus is how these problematic \u201csects\u201d are part of the evidence pointing to a change in how the church treated women.<\/p>\n The Church started to shy away from the example of women who followed Jesus\u2026************* \nand those who worked with Paul\u2026 \nand began to edit NT MSS to keep women silent. \nIt appears this change started in earnest somewhere between 180 to 200 AD. *************\nWe need more scholars to present more evidence on either side of this debate.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Notes:<\/h3>\n*************** ** ***************I apologize for lengthy pause in this article series. I am teaching two classes at the local university this semester and my time has been more limited.<\/p>\n <\/a>1. For more on Montanism see Wright, David, \u201cWhy Were the Montanists Condemned?\u201d,\u00a0Themelios<\/i> 2:1, pp.15-22. See this article online: https:\/\/www.earlychurch.org.uk\/article_montanists_wright.html<\/a><\/p>\n <\/a>2. On Baptism <\/em>17: \u201cFor how credible would it seem, that he who has not permitted a woman even to learn with over-boldness, should give a female the power of teaching and of baptizing! \u201cLet them be silent,\u201d he says, \u201cand at home consult their own husbands.\u201d This appears to be a citation from 1 Cor <\/em>14:34-35. [https:\/\/ccel.org\/ccel\/tertullian\/baptism\/anf03.vi.iii.xvii.html<\/a>]\n<\/p> <\/a>3. Witherington, Ben. \u201cThe Anti-Feminist Tendencies of the \u2018Western\u2019 Text in Acts.\u201d Journal of Biblical Literature<\/em>, vol. 103, no. 1, 1984, pp. 82\u201384; Kurek-Chomycz, Dominika A. \u201cIs There an \u2018Anti-Priscan\u2019 Tendency in the Manuscripts? Some Textual Problems with Prisca and Aquila.\u201d JBL<\/em> 125, no. 1 (2006): pp.107\u201328.*************** ***************\nAdd to these studies an excellent study by Gilles Quispel which points to solid evidence that Marcion\u2019s text of Paul was the Western \u201cD\u201d text-type: Quispel, Gilles, \u201cMarcion and the Text of the New Testament,\u201d VC<\/em>, Vol. 52, No. 4 (Nov., 1998), pp. 349-360. \u201c\u2026it is not a priori<\/em> completely impossible that even at this early date (before 144 C.E.), doctrinal corrections had been introduced into this pre-Western text of Paul\u2019s letters,\u201d p.352.<\/p>\n <\/a>4. I have given very brief and simplistic summaries of these three early \u201cChristians.\u201d Many scholarly studies have questioned these three individuals and the resulting movements. A simplistic summary is never to be fully trusted as historically accurate. Marcion is a bit more clear, but good scholars have challenged the labels given to Marcellina and Montanus.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n \nAbout the Author<\/h4>\n***************** ** <\/p>\n ** *****************Al Baker has served 20+ years as a pastor (university pastor and local church), was an adjunct then an associate professor of Philosophy and Religion at Saint Augustine\u2019s University in Raleigh NC for six years.<\/p>\n**** After serving as the university pastor of Chi Alpha (Assemblies of God) at the University of Alabama for 11 years, he moved his family to St Andrews, Scotland. In 2001 Al Baker completed a Ph.D. in Early Church History at the University of St Andrews.***************** *****************\nIn 2005 he started churchhistory101.com<\/a>, surpassing 1 million unique visitors in 2016. On that site there are several articles on different aspects of early Christianity and two PDF eBooks you can download.\u00a0 Read more.<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 In this article Women in Early Christianity, I want to show how women in problematic early movements appear to have changed how women were allowed to serve. I will offer evidence that points to a probable historical context and timeframe for when NT MSS were changed and the […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4968,"featured_media":1079,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1202","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\nWomen in Problematic Second Century Groups Marcion, Montanus<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Women in two early problematic "Christian" movements appear to have led to drastic changes in how women were allowed to serve...and MSS edits.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/2024\/03\/women-in-problematic-second-century-groups\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Women in Problematic Second Century Groups Marcion, Montanus\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Women in two early problematic "Christian" movements appear to have led to drastic changes in how women were allowed to serve...and MSS edits.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/2024\/03\/women-in-problematic-second-century-groups\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Early Christian History Matters, Why?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/people\/Church-History-101\/100063657422939\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2024-03-05T12:12:56+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2024-06-15T13:31:42+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/1743\/2023\/11\/Women-Mosaic-with-lamb-in-Santa-Prassede.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"968\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"352\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Al Baker\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Al Baker\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"8 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/2024\/03\/women-in-problematic-second-century-groups\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/2024\/03\/women-in-problematic-second-century-groups\/\",\"name\":\"Women in Problematic Second Century Groups Marcion, Montanus\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2024-03-05T12:12:56+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2024-06-15T13:31:42+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/#\/schema\/person\/1a8ecd509fbfcb5375b8d15a31854b9a\"},\"description\":\"Women in two early problematic \\\"Christian\\\" movements appear to have led to drastic changes in how women were allowed to serve...and MSS edits.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/2024\/03\/women-in-problematic-second-century-groups\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/2024\/03\/women-in-problematic-second-century-groups\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/2024\/03\/women-in-problematic-second-century-groups\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Women in Problematic Second Century Groups\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/earlychristianhistorymatters\/\",\"name\":\"Early Christian History Matters, Why?\",\"description\":\"The New Testament was fully organized around 360AD. 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