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Invocation of Dead Saints: 100 Biblical Arguments

Invocation of Dead Saints: 100 Biblical Arguments

Last updated on: June 5, 2026 at 11:15 pm by Dave Armstrong

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Invocation of Dead Saints: 100 Biblical Arguments 2026-06-05T23:15:41-04:00 Dave Armstrong

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Photo credit: self-designed cover of my book (Lulu, 2012).

[important preliminary note: Catholics don’t ultimately pray to anyone besides God, if this is construed as any creature being able to answer prayers by themselves, rather than (necessarily) as a helper or delegated representative of God (helping to get a petition to Him, for an answer). We ask departed saints and angels to intercede for us to God. Even when we say “pray to saints” this is what we mean: at least the properly catechized Catholics who understand their faith. All Bible passages are from RSV]

TABLE OF CONTENTS

I. Departed Saints Are Aware of Earthly Events and Love Us / Extraordinary Characteristics of Those in Heaven, Including the Transdimensional Ability to Hear “Millions” of Prayers

II. Biblically Permissible Contact Between Heaven and Earth / Communication with the Departed

III. Invocation of Departed Human Beings, Who Are Able to Intercede

IV. Contact Between Angels from Heaven and Human Beings

V. Invocation of Angels, Who Intercede

VI. “The Prayer of a Righteous Man Has Great Power in its Effects” (James 5:16)

VII. Is All Prayer and Invocation Worship?

VIII. Soul Sleep

*****

I. Departed Saints Are Aware of Earthly Events and Love Us / Extraordinary Characteristics of Those in Heaven, Including the Transdimensional Ability to Hear “Millions” of Prayers

Commentary: Allie Beth Stuckey, a Reformed Baptist with a very large, popular YouTube channel, did a one-minute short entitled, “What do Catholics believe about Mary and the Saints?” (5-5-24). She stated in it:

[Catholics] believe that there is some kind of not just spiritual transformation, but that there is an incredible expansion of people’s capacity to know, and to do when we get to heaven, that includes the ability to discern millions of prayers at once in all different languages, somehow prioritize, order, carry those requests to God, and that Mary has achieved that kind of transformation and expansion of her capacity, and all of the saints as well. Where does that idea come from?

Likewise, Lutheran apologist and professor, Jordan Cooper, in his YouTube video, “A Critique of Prayer to the Saints” (4-19-20), stated:

30:52 What they’re saying is that the saints have an almost divine omniscience, because the saints themselves are to some degree able to hear the prayers of so many people. . . . he [Peter] can hear every word that is spoken by everyone that is praying to him and not just out loud but even prayers that are in your head. . . . we’re simply never told that those are qualities that are true of any creature . . . that is never ascribed to mere creatures, . . .

These ideas are, in fact, directly deduced from explicit biblical texts (that neither Allie Beth nor Rev. Dr. Cooper seem to have pondered very much: at least not in this respect). These powers need not be “omniscient” (having all knowledge) at all. It’s simply extraordinary abilities, combined with being outside of time in heaven. The great Catholic author and apologist Peter Kreeft similarly expressed the state of those in heaven as follows:

A related consequence of all time being present in eternity is that we will be able to travel in time when we are in eternity. From eternity time is manipulable: expandable, compressible, reversible, divisible. It is silly-putty time. “With the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” [2 Peter 3:8], and just as He plays time like an accordion, expanding and contracting it at will, so can we when we live in Him. As an author can move backward or forward in a story, God can move in time, and so can we, once we get out of the story and into the Author. (Every Thing You Ever Wanted to Know About Heaven . . . But Never Dreamed of Asking, San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1990, 168-169)

Here is a list of these amazing attributes of the perfected saints in heaven:

#1-9 On earth, we “see through a glass, darkly” (1 Cor 13:12, RSV) and “know in part” (1 Cor 13:12), and “eye has not seen” (1 Cor 2:9) what God has “prepared” for us. The Apostle Paul was “caught up into Paradise” and “heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter” (2 Cor 12:3-4). Saints in heaven “shall understand fully” (1 Cor 13:12), and possess “knowledge” that Paul describes as “perfect” (1 Cor 13:9-10), and “an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison” (2 Cor 4:17), “the glory that is to be revealed” (Rom 8:18) and “eternal glory in Christ” (1 Pet 5:10).

#10-19 We’ll be “equal to” angels after death (Lk 20:36), and “like angels” (Mt 22:30; Mk 12:25). More than that, the saved will be “like” Jesus (1 Jn 3:2), “filled with all the fullness of God” (Eph 3:19) and “the fullness of Christ” (Eph 4:13), fully “united to the Lord” and “one spirit with him” (1 Cor 6:17), “changed into his likeness” (2 Cor 3:18), indeed, will fully be “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Pet 1:4) and totally free of and from sin (Rev 19:8; 21:8, 27; 22:14-15). So, can Mary and other saints deal with millions of prayers, outside of time? No problem, with all this going on! Jesus said, after all, “with God all things are possible” (Mt 19:26).

#20-21 We know that angels communicate with those on earth (many examples in the Bible; e.g., “the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven” — Gen 21:17), then it stands to reason that the dead saints will by analogy be able to do the same thing. Jesus said, “I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents” (Lk 15:10). That’s an interior disposition. If angels know that, and we will be “equal” to them, then dead saints in heaven can certainly hear a petition, since by analogy to the angels they’ll be able to discern interior thoughts.

#22-27 So where is the direct proof of our being outside of ordinary time as we know it, in heaven? We have already seen it. All we have to do is combine 2 Peter 3:8 (God being outside of ordinary time) with passages such as those above about our being profoundly united with angels and indeed, God Himself. Moreover, we “abide in” God (1 Jn 3:24; 4:13, 15-16), and specifically, abide in Jesus (Jn 6:56; 15:4). We’re “in” Jesus (Jn 14:20; Phil 4:7). We’re “in” the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:9), and “possess the Spirit” (1 Cor 2:13). Those things start now, on earth. They’ll be even more intense and incomprehensible to our present minds, in heaven.

#28 Hebrews 12:1 . . . we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, . . .

Commentary: “Witnesses” is the Greek word martus, from which is derived the English word “martyr.”

Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Joseph H. Thayer, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 4th ed., 1977; orig. 1901, 392) defines it — as used in this verse — as follows: “One who is a spectator of anything, e.g. of a contest, Heb 12:1.”

[Strong’s word #3144; similar usages cited by Thayer: Lk 24:48; Acts 1:8; 1:22; 2:32; 3:15; 5:32; 10:39; 13:31; 26:16; 1 Pet 5:1 – the sense is indisputable in these other verses]

Word Studies in the New Testament (Marvin R. Vincent, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1980; orig. 1887; vol. 4, 536), another standard Protestant language source from a Presbyterian scholar, comments on this verse as follows:

‘Witnesses’ does not mean spectators, but those who have borne witness to the truth, as those enumerated in chapter 11. Yet the idea of spectators is implied, and is really the principal idea. The writer’s picture is that of an arena in which the Christians whom he addresses are contending in a race, while the vast host of the heroes of faith who, after having borne witness to the truth, have entered into their heavenly rest, watches the contest from the encircling tiers of the arena, compassing and overhanging it like a cloud, filled with lively interest and sympathy, and lending heavenly aid.

These observations lend themselves to the Catholic notion of communion of saints, where saints in heaven are aware of, and observe events on earth, and this cannot be ruled out by any means, on the basis of a mere doctrinal bias.

#29 Revelation 6:9-10 I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?”

Commentary: these saints appear to be aware of earthly happenings. This is what is known as an imprecatory prayer, for righteous judgment against enemies (often seen in the Psalms: 35, 59, 69, 79, 109, 139; and in Jeremiah 11:18 ff., 15:15 ff., 18:19 ff., 20:11 ff. An angel offers up a very similar prayer in Zechariah 1:12. Jesus mentions a type of this prayer in Matthew 26:53, in which He stated that He could “pray” to the Father and receive legions of angels to prevent His arrest had it been the Father’s will.

Even Martin Luther and John Calvin admitted that the saints may be — or are — praying for us in heaven:

Although angels in heaven pray for us . . . and although saints on earth, and perhaps also in heaven, do likewise, it does not follow that we should invoke angels and saints. (Smalcald Articles, 1537, Part II, Article II in Theodore G. Tappert, translator, The Book of Concord, St. Louis: Concordia Pub. House, 1959, 297)

I grant they pray for us in this way. (Institutes of the Christian Religion, III, 20, 24)

If so, then how can it be wrong to simply ask dead saints to intercede for us to God, since they are aware of earthly happenings, and are indeed praying for us?

II. Biblically Permissible Contact Between Heaven and Earth / Communication with the Departed

[a Protestant stated on my Facebook page: “Scripture forbids the living from speaking to the dead, but it does not forbid the dead from speaking to other dead people.” If this were true (but it’s not!) it would take out a key and necessary underlying premise of invocation of saints. If indeed God intended that there be no such interaction at any time, and/or if indeed it is all sinful (pigeonholed as supposedly necessarily necromancy, seances, etc.), then all invocation of saints would be precluded from the outset, as a species of forbidden practices. But the premise here is unbiblical, as I will prove beyond any doubt below. Therefore, the objection collapses.]

#30 Matthew 17:1-3 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain apart. [2] And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his garments became white as light. [3] And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him.

Commentary: Jesus wouldn’t have told Peter and James and John (as far as we know from the text and related cross-references), “get away from Moses and Elijah! That’s necromancy!” If Peter or John had asked Moses or Elijah, “hey, what’s it like in Hades?” that would be a sin according to many Protestants, because it was human-originated and seeking information. They don’t like the idea, so they will say that they wouldn’t have conversed. But nothing in this text or the Bible would make such a scenario theologically or logically impossible or impermissible. They very well could have done so. Peter saying, “I will make three booths here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah” (17:4) almost sounds to me like — mere speculation — he wanted to talk theology around the campfire with Moses and Elijah until the wee hours of the morning. Who wouldn’t?

#31 Counter-Argument: Jesus was God, and He can do extraordinary things like that; it doesn’t mean we ought to, or are able to do it. Paul wrote, “Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1) and “be imitators of God” (Eph 5:1), and John stated, “he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked” (1 Jn 2:6), and Peter observed, “Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps” (1 Pet 2:21). Jesus Himself gave us the Royal Commandment: “love one another; even as I have loved you” (Jn 13:34). After washing the disciples’ feet, Jesus said, “If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. For I have given you an example, that you also should do as I have done to you” (Jn 13:14-15). Jesus even taught that His followers would be able to heal, cast out demons, and raise the dead, so they can certainly also communicate with long-dead human beings, as He did at the transfiguration.

#32 Matthew 27:52-53 many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Commentary: It’s quite reasonable to assume that these dead and resurrected saints talked to people, since they appeared to them, and since the risen Jesus did a lot of that, for forty days.

#33 John 11:43-44 When he had said this, he cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out.” [44] The dead man came out, . . .

Commentary: Jesus spoke to the dead Lazarus before He raised him. And he prayed for the dead Lazarus, too (11:41-42).

#34 Counter-Argument: But that’s Jesus doing that, and He’s God. Who says that we also can? Well, the Bible does, because in Acts 9:36-41 below, Peter does exactly the same thing, and he also prays for the same dead person, Tabitha, before raising her.

#35 Acts 9:36-37, 40-41 Now there was at Joppa a disciple named Tabitha, which means Dorcas. She was full of good works and acts of charity. [37] In those days she fell sick and died; . . . [40] But Peter put them all outside and knelt down and prayed; then turning to THE BODY he said, “Tabitha, rise.” And she opened her eyes, and when she saw Peter she sat up. [41] And he gave her his hand and lifted her up. Then calling the saints and widows he presented her alive.

Commentary: St. Peter spoke to the dead Tabitha before he raised her (the text states, “turning to the body he said, ‘Tabitha, rise.'”). He also prayed for a dead person (Tabitha).

#36 Counter-Argument: That’s an apostle doing this: a special category of people. We’re not called to that. All twelve disciples were sent out, with Jesus instructing them to “Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons” (Mt 10:8). It’s commonly thought by all parties that the disciples were the prototype of the Christian believer. Jesus also said, indicating the same thing, “there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he” (Mt 11:11). If Peter spoke to a dead person, then it follows by logical extension that any Christian believer could do so. Paul wrote that there would be ongoing “gifts of healing” in the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:9, 30), and raising the dead can be viewed as the ultimate healing. Just as Jesus and Peter talked to the dead before raising them, so could anyone who does it. Jesus sent out the “seventy” disciples to evangelize, we’re informed that they “returned with joy, saying, ‘Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!’ ” (Lk 10:17).

#37 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 . . . I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. [2] I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven — whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. [3] And I know that this man was caught up into Paradise — whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows — [4] and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.

Commentary: The Apostle Paul describes an extraordinary experience of his as being “caught up to the third heaven” and “caught up into Paradise” (2 Cor 12:2-3) and states that it may have even been “in the body”. But then he also describes as an example of “visions and revelations of the Lord” (12:1), so who knows? It seems more likely to have been an actual visit to heaven than John’s extraordinary accounts in Revelation. In either event, it’s more contact of heaven and earth with regard to a human being who is on the earth.

#38 Revelation 7:13-14 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and whence have they come?” [14] I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (continues in 7:15-17)

Commentary: Here John converses with an “elder” (considered by commentators to be a dead human being). An entire argument can be made from St. John and the book of Revelation. Most Bible commentators appear to believe that John was on the earth and had a mystical, spiritual vision of heaven, recounted in the book of Revelation. He reports: “I John, . . . was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet” (1:9-10). He uses the word “vision” once in 9:17, but repeatedly writes that he “saw” (51 times) and “heard” things (36 times). He writes, “I John am he who heard and saw these things” (22:8). The senses of touch and smell seem to not be involved, since the words “touch”, “feel”, “felt”, “odor”, “fragrance”, or “smell” don’t appear.

The phrase “in the Spirit” occurs also in 4:2 (“I was in the Spirit, and lo, a throne stood in heaven”); 17:3; and 21:10 and this suggests that it was a vision. If that was the case, he was still on the earth when all of this happened. The phrase “in heaven” occurs 17 times, but is consistent with a vision. It would be like one reporting a dream, saying, “I was in my old school again” etc. The phrase “from heaven” appears 14 times, suggesting a distance and not being there. He never writes that he was “taken to heaven” or “went to heaven.” Here are several other instances of the same phenomenon:

#39 Revelation 5:5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Weep not; lo, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.

Commentary: an “elder” in heaven talks to John.

#40 Revelation 4:10-11 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever; they cast their crowns before the throne, singing, [11] “Worthy art thou, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for thou didst create all things, and by thy will they existed and were created.”

#41 Revelation 5:8-10 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, . . . [9] and they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation, [10] and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth.”

#42 Revelation 11:16 And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, (words of praise in 11:17-18)

Commentary: John saw and heard 24 elders in heaven worshiping God in these three passages.

#43 Revelation 5:11-12 Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, [12] saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive

#44 Revelation 7:11-12 And all the angels stood round the throne and round the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, [12] saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God for ever and ever! Amen.”

Commentary: John saw and heard angels and elders in heaven worshiping God in these two passages.

#45 Revelation 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, “To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!”

Commentary: John heard “every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth” worshiping God.

#46 Revelation 7:9-10 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, [10] and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!”

Commentary: John saw and heard “a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation” worshiping God.

#47 Revelation 19:1-2 After this I heard what seemed to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying, “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, [2] for his judgments are true and just; he has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication, and he has avenged on her the blood of his servants.” (continues in 19:3-8, mentioning the “elders”)

Commentary: John heard a “great multitude in heaven” worshiping God.

#48 Revelation 14:1-4 Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. [2] And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpers playing on their harps, [3] and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth. [4] It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste; it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes; these have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb,

Commentary: John saw and heard the 144,000 worshiping God.

***

#49 Revelation 11:3, 7-12 And I will grant my two witnesses power to prophesy for one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth. . . . [7] And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit will make war upon them and conquer them and kill them, [8] and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. [9] For three days and a half men from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb, [10] and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth. [11] But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. [12] Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up hither!” And in the sight of their foes they went up to heaven in a cloud.

Commentary: several prominent Protestant commentators and some early Church fathers hold that these two men were either Elijah and Enoch (both men who didn’t die) or Moses and Elijah (the two who appeared at the transfiguration: see Mal 4:5-6; cf. Mt 17:11-12; Lk 1:17; Jn 1:21; Acts 3:21), who appear on the earth again for 3 1/2 years, prophesying and talking to hundreds, if not thousands of people. Lots of “contact” there! Even if they were not long-dead figures, when they rose from the dead, it still constitutes yet more contact between the dead and those on earth (as would be the case with every raising of the dead; e.g., by the prophet Elisha: 2 Kgs 4:18-37; 13:20-21; Paul and Eutychus: Acts 20:7-12, etc.).

III. Invocation of Departed Human Beings, Who Are Able to Intercede

[A Protestant stated on my Facebook page: “We are commanded to pray to God only.” But where is this in Scripture? One would have to find something that includes words such as “only” or “pray to God alone”, for this to be true. I’m not sure anyone can find an “exclusive” verse like that (I highly suspect, not). If I’m wrong about that, all any Protestant who disagrees needs to do is find such an “exclusive” verse. Otherwise, passages about prayer to God don’t necessarily, logically exclude the possibility of other passages describing prayer to saints or angels.]

#50 1 Samuel 28:6-19 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams, or by Urim, or by prophets. [7] Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at Endor.” [8] So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments, and went, he and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit, and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.” [9] The woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the wizards from the land. Why then are you laying a snare for my life to bring about my death?” [10] But Saul swore to her by the LORD, “As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.” [11] Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.” [12] When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul.” [13] The king said to her, “Have no fear; what do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” [14] He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up; and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground, and did obeisance. [15] Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress; for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams; therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.” [16] And Samuel said, “Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has turned from you and become your enemy? [17] The LORD has done to you as he spoke by me; for the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand, and given it to your neighbor, David. [18] Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD, and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Am’alek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. [19] Moreover the LORD will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines; and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me; the LORD will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines.”

Commentary: King Saul spoke to the prophet Samuel after he died and made a prayer petition to him (28:15), to find out what to do about his enemy, the Philistines.

#51 Counter-Argument: This occurred in conjunction with a forbidden seance, so it’s an invalid argument. How Saul and the medium attempted to “bring him up” was grave sin. That’s a given and no one disagrees. Nevertheless, the real Samuel appeared, never told Saul that he shouldn’t make a prayer request of him (that it could only be made to God), and gave a true prophecy: that Saul would die the next day. If God absolutely forbade any such contact, then Samuel wouldn’t have appeared in the first place. As it was, Samuel’s appearance itself was obviously not forbidden, because if God didn’t will that, it wouldn’t have happened. This doesn’t overcome the force of the argument, which is that a dead person is petitioned / prayed to, which violates the Protestant tenet that we are to pray to / invoke no one but God.

#52 Counter-Argument #2: Samuel refused the petition, therefore, it was impermissible. God doesn’t grant every prayer request; likewise, persons or angels who are involved in the process of prayer as intermediaries and God’s representatives can do the same thing in God’s name. Saul was refused because he was already out of God’s will and rejected by Him (28:16, 18), not because he invoked Samuel improperly or contrary to Mosaic Law. God’s rejection of him was expressed three times earlier in the chapter (15:10-11; 16:14; 18:12).

#53 Counter-Argument #3: “Samuel” in the story was merely an impersonating demon. After all, the Bible says that “even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (2 Cor 11:14). There is no indication whatsoever of a counterfeit of this sort in the text (which always uses the name “Samuel”), and a demon would not utter a true prophecy, in any event. It would lie and tell Saul that everything would go wonderfully in battle the next day. If this was a demon, the text would have said so. Likewise, we see a similar scenario with false prophets: “when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the LORD has not spoken” (Deut 18:22). Jesus said, “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits” (Mt 7:15-16). The “fruit” with Samuel was a true prophecy, that came to pass within 24 hours. Therefore, he could not possibly be an impersonating demon, or a false prophet. This was the prophet Samuel, uttering true prophecies, just as he did during his lifetime on earth. The deuterocanonical book Sirach (Ecclesiasticus; written between 196-175 BC) taught that this was Samuel:

#54 Sirach 46:20 Even after he had fallen asleep he prophesied and revealed to the king his death, and lifted up his voice out of the earth in prophecy, to blot out the wickedness of the people.

#55 Jeremiah 15:1 Then the LORD said to me, “Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my heart would not turn toward this people. . . .”

Commentary: The prophet Jeremiah lived from c. 650 to c. 570 BC. The prophet Samuel lived in the 11th c. BC. Moses lived from c. 1340/1330 to c. 1220/1210 BC. God is speaking to Jeremiah, referring to the present, and casually assumes that it was possible for long-dead Moses and Samuel to stand before Him and intercede for the straying people of Judah who were about to be severely judged by God. Both men were known as preeminent intercessors while alive on the earth. They continue that in the afterlife.

#56 2 Maccabees 15:12-16 . . . Onias, who had been high priest, a noble and good man, of modest bearing and gentle manner, one who spoke fittingly and had been trained from childhood in all that belongs to excellence, was praying with outstretched hands for the whole body of the Jews. [13] Then likewise a man appeared, distinguished by his gray hair and dignity, and of marvelous majesty and authority. [14] And Onias spoke, saying, “This is a man who loves the brethren and prays much for the people and the holy city, Jeremiah, the prophet of God.” [15] Jeremiah stretched out his right hand and gave to Judas a golden sword, and as he gave it he addressed him thus: [16] “Take this holy sword, a gift from God, with which you will strike down your adversaries.”

#57 Counter-Argument: 2nd Maccabees is part of the Apocrypha, rejected by Protestants, and so isn’t part of the Bible. 2nd Maccabees is in the Deuterocanon, accepted by Catholics and Orthodox. Whether one regards it as part of the Bible or not, it still bears witness to historic Jewish belief, in the time period between 150 and 100 BC, when it was written. The prophet Jeremiah, dead for over 400 years, still loved his people and was praying for them and even giving them military guidance. The Deuterocanon in general also provides the backdrop and early development of New Testament theology on a variety of topics (particularly this area, and eschatology (regarding the end-times and “last things”).

#58 Luke 16:22-25, 27-31 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; [23] and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus in his bosom. [24] And he called out, `Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.’ [25] But Abraham said, `Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. . . . [27] And he said, `Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house, [28] for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ [29] But Abraham said, `They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ [30] And he said, `No, father Abraham; but if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ [31] He said to him, `If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.’”

Commentary: It’s a very difficult spot that Protestants are in when it comes to Luke 16, according to their existing (false) views about the invocation and intercession of departed saints and the broader issue of the nature and scope of prayer itself, so what do they do about it? If Jesus were against such prayers, I submit that He would have never — in a million years — told this story in the first place, with seeming perfect agreement with it. It makes no sense at all, because He would be telling a story about prayer (among other things), and if it must only be to God, why is it that Jesus teaches that prayer to Abraham is fine and dandy, and God is never mentioned at all? It’s the very last way to teach that we ought to only pray to God. That’s why it cannot be force-fit into Protestantism — no way no how. The rich man is asking (petitioning / praying to) Abraham to fulfill supernatural requests that — as far as we know from the Bible — only God can fulfill, either directly or through an intermediary, and he’s not rebuked for doing so. Protestants deny invocation of anyone but God, so they are in a real pickle here.

#59 Counter-Argument: it’s only a parable! The Bible is inspired, and it can’t teach error, nor can Jesus, as the omniscient God. It’s irrelevant whether it is a parable or not. It can’t contain error, since parables are a teaching tool. But I contend that it’s not a parable. Parables are usually introduced as such. In the same book, the phrase, “he told them a parable” occurs five times (5:36; 6:39; 12:16; 18:1; 21:29). But in Luke 16 it doesn’t. Jesus starts out, “There was a rich man . . .” (16:19). Parables also don’t contain proper names, let alone famous people like Abraham. Even those who think this is a parable will say (if you look it up) that this is the only one that has a proper name. None of the [“other”] parables do that. Jesus explained parables to His disciples. But we don’t see them asking Him to explain it (at least it’s not recorded). It seems reasonable, then, to conclude that that they accepted it in toto, which would include prayer to a saint.

#60 Counter-Argument: they’re both dead, so it doesn’t count as a proof. The one praying has to be alive on the earth. This is not of the essence. The essential matter at hand is whether anyone can pray to anyone but God. We all agree that everyone: saved and damned, are alive for all eternity. No one is “dead” in the sense of annihilationism. This shows that they can pray to a departed saint — a creature who isn’t God — , by the words and actions of Abraham and the non-disagreement of Jesus. If only God can be prayed to, then that would hold in Hades as well as on earth. Thus, the story would violate the ironclad Protestant rule that only God can be prayed to, regardless of where the one praying is located.

#61 Counter-Argument: it wasn’t a prayer from the rich man. It certainly was. At 16:27, several older translations even include the phrase, “I pray thee”, such as KJV, ASV, ERV, Webster, Young’s Literal, Geneva Bible (1587), Bishops’ Bible (1568), Coverdale Bible (1535), Tyndale (1526). “I pray you” appears 32 times in RSV, including twice in the New Testament (Lk 14:18-19): almost all referring to other human beings. Lot says to “two angels” in Genesis 19:2, “My lords, turn aside, I pray you, to your servant’s house.” Secondly, we see that prayer is definitely involved because of the nature of what is being asked. The rich man asks Abraham to send Lazarus to his father’s house (16:27), reasoning that “if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent” (16:30). These are supernatural acts, that only God or His representative could perform. Abraham doesn’t say that that is intrinsically impossible (which is yet more proof for contact between the living and the dead). Rather, he explains, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead” (16:31). He wasn’t saying that he couldn’t or shouldn’t do this; only that he wouldn’t, based on the reason he provided. It wasn’t in accord with God’s will.

#62 Counter-Argument: the rich man was turned down; therefore, it isn’t true that Abraham could receive prayer. I think the most reasonable interpretation of the whole exchange is that the prayers aren’t answered because they are against God’s will (i.e., the same reason God refuses some prayer requests). Abraham explained why he didn’t grant the request in God’s name (16:31). If indeed Abraham couldn’t answer petitions (as God’s representative), then it’s most reasonable to believe that he would have said so: something like, “why are you asking me? Don’t you know you can only ask God for these things, and must always pray directly to Him, and that I can’t do anything about this, as a mere man?!” That’s what he would have had to say and/or what Jesus would have pointed out, if Protestant objections are correct. God’s answer to prayer can always be “no”, because He turns down requests outside of His will. We know that from at least three scriptural passages (James 4:3; 1 John 3:22; 5:14). Likewise, with intercessors acting in His stead. They know which prayers are in harmony with God’s will.

Abraham would have corrected the error, if Protestants are correct, just as angels refuse worship when it is offered, because only God can be worshiped. We see that in Revelation 19:9-10 and 22:8-9. St. Peter did the same thing with Cornelius (Acts 10:25-26). So did St Paul and Barnabas (Acts 14:11-15). Jesus (who told and approved of the story) corrected misunderstandings on many recorded occasions; for example: John 3:1-15 (Nicodemus and the meaning of “born again”), Matthew 13:36-51 (explanation of the parable of the tares), Matthew 15:10-20 (what defiles a man), Matthew 16:5-12 (metaphorical use of leaven), Matthew 17:9-13 (parallel of Elijah and John the Baptist), Matthew 19:24-26 (camel through the eye of a needle and rich men), Mark 4:33-34 and Luke 8:9-15 (meaning of parables in general), Luke 24:13-27 (Jesus’ teaching about Himself to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus), John 4:31-34 (metaphorical meaning of meat), John 8:21-32 (His own divinity), John 10:1-9 (parable of the Good Shepherd), and John 11:8-15 (sleep as symbolic of death).

#63 Counter-Argument: the rich man was in hell. Why would we care about what a lost reprobate person prays? He’s not in hell. He’s in Hades. or the netherworld; abode of the dead before Christ rose from the dead (OT: Sheol), as the text states (16:23). It’s true that the KJV has the word “hell” here, but that was in the larger sense of the word, used more so in the past, where it included Hades. See also the Nicene Creed, which states that Jesus “descended to hell.” It was literally Hades. Most modern English translations of the Bible have Hades in Luke 16:23 because that’s the clear meaning.

#64 Revelation 5:8 . . . the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;

Commentary: These “elders” are regarded by commentators as dead human being in heaven. What are they doing with these “prayers of the saints”? Why does Revelation present dead saints presenting the prayers of other saints to God? Either God involves them in our prayers by delegation (they “handle” prayers intended for God), or they have them because people asked them to pray to God. If they have the prayers of others, it stands to reason as a rather straightforward deduction, that they heard the initial prayers as well, or at least were granted knowledge of them in some fashion, granted ultimately through the power of God. Otherwise those prayers would not be, in a sense, theirs to offer. If all these indeed went straight to God only, why would this scene be mentioned at all?

IV. Contact Between Angels from Heaven and Human Beings

#65 Luke 1:26-38 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, [27] to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. [28] And he came to her and said, “Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!” [29] But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. [30] And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. [31] And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. [32] He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, [33] and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end.” [34] And Mary said to the angel, “How shall this be, since I have no husband?” [35] And the angel said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God. [36] And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. [37] For with God nothing will be impossible.” [38] And Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

Commentary: the angel Gabriel appears to Mary at the Annunciation and talks to her, and she talks to him. Many other instances of angels and human beings communicating are in the Bible:

#66 An angel told Hagar that she would bear Ishmael (Gen 16:7-11) and later called to her from heaven (21:17). Abraham is called in the same way, twice (Gen 22:11, 15), and two angels visit and converse with him (Gen 18:1-10). Two angels appears to Lot in Sodom (Gen 19:1, 15). Angels “met” Jacob (Gen 32:1). An angel accompanied the Jews in the wilderness (Ex 14:19; 23:20, 23; 32:34; 33:2; Num 20:16). Balaam encountered an angel (Num 22:22-35). An angel spoke to “all the people of Israel” (Josh 2:1-4). Zechariah talked with an angel (1:14). See many other instances in the Old Testament.

#67 In the New Testament, angels announce the birth of Jesus to the shepherds in the field (Lk 2:8-15), angels tell people that Jesus had risen (Mt 28:5; Mk 16:5-7; Lk 24:4-7), the angel Gabriel tells Zechariah that he will have a son, John the Baptist, and they converse (Lk 1:11-20), an angel appears to Peter to release him from prison (Acts 12:6-11), angels talk to John during his revelation. He has about 75 other encounters with them during the same experience (e.g., 1:1-2, 9; 10:9, 11; 11:1-2; 17:1-2; 7-18; 19:9-10; 21:9, 15; 22:6-11). Two angels converse with Mary Magdalene at Jesus’ tomb (Jn 20:12-13), Joseph was told that Mary would bear Jesus (Mt 1:20), and to go to Egypt and return to Israel (Mt 2:13, 19-20), an angel frees several apostles form prison and talks to them (Acts 5:18-20), an angel guided Philip (Acts 8:26), and angel spoke to the Gentile Cornelius (Acts 10:3, 7), and angel told Paul not to be afraid (Acts 27:23-24). The author of Hebrews says that “some have entertained angels unawares” (13:2)

V. Invocation of Angels, Who Intercede

#68 Genesis 19:15, 17-21 When morning dawned, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Arise, take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be consumed in the punishment of the city.” . . . [17] . . . they said, “Flee for your life; do not look back or stop anywhere in the valley; flee to the hills, lest you be consumed.” [18] And Lot said to them, “Oh, no, my lords; [19] behold, your servant has found favor in your sight, and you have shown me great kindness in saving my life; but I cannot flee to the hills, lest the disaster overtake me, and I die. [20] Behold, yonder city is near enough to flee to, and it is a little one. Let me escape there . . . and my life will be saved!” [21] He said to him, “Behold, I grant you this favor also, that I will not overthrow the city of which you have spoken.”

Commentary: Lot prayed to two angels and they granted his request. The two angels functioned as God’s messengers or intermediaries, and as such fulfilled what is essentially a prayer request. The wonderful Lutheran Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament comments on this passage:

There is nothing to indicate that Jehovah suddenly joined the angels. The only supposition that remains, therefore, is that Lot recognised in the two angels a manifestation of God, and so addressed them (Genesis 19:18) as Adonai (my Lord), and that the angel who spoke addressed him as the messenger of Jehovah in the name of God, without its following from this, that Jehovah was present in the two angels.

In other words, he was asking (petitioning / praying to) the two angels to fulfill supernatural requests that — as far as we know from the Bible — only God can fulfill, either directly or through an intermediary (in this case, the angels).

#69 Zechariah 1:12 Then the angel of the LORD said, “O LORD of hosts, how long wilt thou have no mercy on Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these seventy years?”

Commentary: here an angel prays for Jerusalem.

#70 Tobit 12:12-15 And so, when you and your daughter-in-law Sarah prayed, I brought a reminder of your prayer before the Holy One; and when you buried the dead, I was likewise present with you. [13] When you did not hesitate to rise and leave your dinner in order to go and lay out the dead, your good deed was not hidden from me, but I was with you. [14] So now God sent me to heal you and your daughter-in-law Sarah. [15] I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints and enter into the presence of the glory of the Holy One.”

Commentary: this is from a deuterocanonical passage. Protestants don’t accept it as Scripture, yet nevertheless (even for them) it reflects the background in angelology that was developed in the New Testament and by Christianity. The book is thought to have ben written in the 3rd or late 2nd century BC. It’s strikingly similar to Revelation 8:3-4 below, and makes more explicit my speculations as to that passage’s implications for the topic at hand. A woman prayed (cf. 3:11, 16), and the angel Raphael “brought a reminder of” her “prayer before the Holy One.” The same book also notes that the angel Raphael healed two people (3:17), and talks to people (several instances).

#71 Luke 1:13 But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechari’ah, for your prayer is heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John.

Commentary: the angel Gabriel is aware that a prayer from Zechariah was heard (similar to Revelation 8:3-4 below) — because, it seems, of the fact that he “stand[s] in the presence of God” (1:19) and is “one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints” (Tobit 12:15).

#72 Revelation 8:3-4 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; [4] and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.

Commentary: As with Revelation 5:8 and dead human beings (dealt with elsewhere in this article), the same question arises: what are they doing with these “prayers of the saints”? Either God involves them in our prayers by delegation (they “handle” prayers intended for God), or they have them because people asked them to pray to God. This passage is even more remarkable than 5:8 because it refers to “all the prayers of the saints”: suggesting universal angelic involvement in prayers, directed to them or to God through their intercessory mediation. Another striking feature is how — unlike Revelation 5:8 — the incense and prayers are distinguished from each other and not equated. I think, prima facie, it’s most sensible to conclude that the angels (like the human “elders” in 5:8) are being intermediaries, rather than simply given a batch of these prayers from saints (some sort of heavenly “post office”), and presenting them to God, which seems to have little meaning. God can accept them direct from us; He doesn’t need angels to be in that process, unless, that is, it has some participatory meaning and function.

VI. “The Prayer of a Righteous Man Has Great Power in its Effects” (James 5:16)

#73 James 5:13-18 Is any one among you suffering? Let him pray. Is any cheerful? Let him sing praise. [14] Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; [15] and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. [16] Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. [17] Eli’jah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. [18] Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit.

Commentary: Here a spiritual principle is definitively established about prayers being more powerful to the degree that the intercessor is more righteous. The Bible teaches from beginning to end (Genesis to Revelation) that prayers of more righteous people have more effect, so that if we really want to get an answer from God, and His aid, we ought to find the most righteous person we can find and ask him or her to pray for us to God. That was Moses and Abraham and Samuel and Jeremiah in the Old Testament, and it’s the same in the New Testament, with James illustrating the principle through the example of Elijah stopping the rain for three-and-a-half years. I proved the eminently biblical nature of this “spiritually efficient” and “biblically wise” practice with scores of passages: Bible on the Power of Prayers of the Righteous [11-16-22].

#74-79 Anyone can go directly to God in prayer at any time. The Catholic Church has never stated otherwise. But they can also choose to wisely ask a person holier than themselves to make a prayer request of God, because of the passages above, and others such as: “the eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer” (1 Pet 3:12), and “When the righteous cry for help, the LORD hears” (Ps 34:17), and “the prayer of the upright is his delight” (Prov 15:8), and “he hears the prayer of the righteous” (Prov 15:29), and “we receive from him whatever we ask, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him” (1 Jn 3:22), and “If I had cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not have listened” (Ps 66:18; cf. 66:19-20).

Having established this principle of scriptural and efficient, spiritually wise prayer, we see how it is carried out in the case of very holy people. God told Abimelech that Abraham would pray for him, so he could live, “for” Abraham was “a prophet” (Gen 20:6-7). “All Israel” (1 Sam 12:1) “said to Samuel [the prophet], ‘Pray for your servants to the LORD your God, that we may not die’. . .” (1 Sam 12:19). God told Job’s “friends”: “my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly” (Job 42:8).

Why did God listen to Job’s prayers? It’s because God Himself stated that “there is none like” Job “on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil” (Job 1:8). King Zedekiah asked the holy prophet Jeremiah to pray for him and the country (Jer 37:3; cf. 42:2: “[they] said to Jeremiah the prophet, ‘Let our supplication come before you, and pray to the LORD your God for us’ “).

If we go to a more righteous or holy person and ask them to pray for x, then x is far more likely to happen than if we go to God directly (because we are less righteous). Therefore, it’s more “efficient” and “better” to do this in these instances rather than go directly to God. Righteous people know God’s will better than those who are not following God with a whole heart, with all their might. Therefore, their prayers are more effective.

#80 Counter-Argument: But why pray to anyone besides God? Why not go straight to Him? All agree that those in heaven are perfectly righteous and without sin. Therefore, according to James, their prayers would be immensely powerful: far more than the prayers of anyone alive on earth. It’s established — on other grounds, elsewhere in this article –that they are aware of earthly happenings, love people on earth, want to aid them through prayer, and are able to do so, and in fact do so. Therefore, we invoke them and ask their intercession.

VII. Is All Prayer and Invocation Worship?

[this is another attempt by some (many?) Protestants to wipe out all intercession and invocation of saints by virtue of claiming that since all prayer is worship, no one can be prayed to (i.e., asked to intercede to God) but God. It’s ingeniously clever, but massively unbiblical . . . ]

#81 How is requesting something of God or interceding for someone else, or pouring out our heart or our doubts to God, or being still and listening for His words to us or answer to a prayer, worship? Probably most of the prayers that Christians utter are a lot more like requests that we make of another person. That’s simply not worship, even if we are addressing God. Jesus Himself compares prayer to the request made by a son to a father, in Matthew 7:7-11. James expands upon the concept of prayer as “asking” that Jesus had established: “You do not have, because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly . . .” That’s in James 4:2-3.

#82 The standard Protestant reference work, Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine, in its entry, “Pray, Prayer” lists six Greek words and two variations, with various specific meanings, but it never once refers to either worship or praise. Likewise, the entry, “Praise” contains five Greek words or their variants, never mentioning prayer. Moreover, its section on “Worship” never uses the word “prayer” either.

#83 Sometimes (not all the time), the elements of a petitionary request and worship are together in a prayer, such as in Isaiah 37:15-17, 20. Sometimes a prayer is entirely praise and worship, as in Jeremiah 32:16-22. Sometimes prayer is a confession (either individual or corporate), as in Daniel 9:3-11. The most well-known prayer in the Bible is, of course, The Lord’s Prayer, or Our Father. It has many different elements together. Worship is present only in two sections: “Hallowed by thy name” and “For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory.” The Bible simply doesn’t associate prayer and worship all that closely. The word “worship” appears 82 times in the New Testament and “pray” or “prayer” 161 times, but only once are they together in a verse: Luke 2:37. It refers to a woman “worshiping with fasting and prayer night and day.” The phrase “worship God in prayer” never appears in the Bible. Nor does the phrase, “worship him in prayer.” I looked up instances of “pray” and “praise” together and in the sole appearance in James 5:13, they are separated: “Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is any cheerful? Let him sing praise.”

VIII. Soul Sleep

[the definition of death is the separation of the soul and body. No one is ever not alive in the sense of “no longer existing” / “annihilated” because all souls are eternal. The saints in the afterlife — those who are saved, or in the elect — are “dead” in the sense that they are no longer inhabiting the earth; their sojourn here has ended. They’re alive in terms of still being consciously in existence in heaven (or in Hades, before Christ), and they are so initially as spirits, but eventually will receive glorified resurrection bodies. The lost are also alive; kept in Hades until such tome as they end up in conscious eternal torment and punishment in hell, by their own choice, since they chose to reject God and His free offer of grace and salvation.]

[this heretical doctrine is held by Seventh-Day Adventists, Christadelphians, non-trinitarian, non-Christian Jehovah’s Witnesses, and some others, including Martin Luther (possibly; opinions differ), William Tyndale, John Wycliffe, and a growing number of Protestant evangelicals (among whom the denial of an eternal hell is also becoming increasingly fashionable). It’s the belief that souls aren’t conscious at all after death, until the resurrection of the dead and the last judgment. Therefore, this false belief is utilized to completely wipe out the invocation of saints, since if souls after death aren’t conscious, they’re obviously unable to receive any petitions or intercessory requests, nor can they love those on the earth. I did a long refutation of it. I’ll post all of those below, as separate broad arguments.]

Defense of Immortal, Conscious Souls (vs. Lucas Banzoli) [17-Part Series]:

#84-100 #1 (Preliminaries) [11-1-22]

#2 (Genesis 2:7 and the Hebrew / Biblical Idiom of Synecdoche) [11-4-22]

#3 (Hebrew, Nephesh [Soul]: Massive Figurative Biblical Use) [11-7-22]

#4 (Revelation 6:9: “Souls” in Heaven / 16 Biblical Proofs for Conscious Souls After Death) [11-9-22]

#5 (Revelation 6:9: “Souls” in Heaven Redux) [11-11-22]

#6 (Conspiracy Theories About Bibles and the Many Meanings of “Soul” in Holy Scripture) [11-12-22]

#7 (Banzoli Decides — At Last! — to Reply to My Second Post [#5] About Souls Under the Altar in Heaven) [11-14-22]

#8 (Banzoli’s Soul Sleep Leads Him to Believe That the Soul of Jesus Christ “Died” — Didn’t Exist — Between His Death and Resurrection, and That He was Unconscious in His Human Nature During That Time) [11-14-22]

#9 (Matthew 10:28: Did Jesus Teach That a Soul Could be Annihilated?) [11-18-22]

#10 (The Story of Lazarus and the Rich Man (Lk 16:19-31) in Relation to the Doctrine of Immortal Souls [11-22-22]

#11 (“Second Death” = “Lake of Fire” = Eternal Torment in Hell. Jesus & Luke Believed in Both Hades and Hell) [11-25-22]

#12 (Paul Affirms Three Times That Souls Continue Outside of the Body / Banzoli Claims That Angels Are Material Beings) [11-29-22]

#13 (Dead Biblical Heroes Return to Earth!: Samuel & Saul / Moses & Elijah at Jesus’ Transfiguration) [12-1-22]

#14: Jesus’ Visit (After He Died) to Hades, Preaching to the “Spirits in Prison” and Setting “Captives” Free [12-2-22]

#15: Hebrews 12:23: “the spirits of just men made perfect” [12-3-22]

#16: Sheol (Hades): Merely the “Grave” or “Underground” or the Conscious Abode of Dead Souls? [12-5-22]

#17: Ecclesiastes 9:5: “The Dead Know Nothing” / Psalm 146:4: “His Thoughts Perish,” Etc. [12-6-22]

*****

Photo credit: self-designed cover of my book (Lulu, 2012). See the book page for info. and purchase information.

Summary: 100 biblical proofs from years of apologetics research for the many aspects of invocation and intercession of saints and angels, including anterior presuppositional objections.

Saints & Purgatory & Penance

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May 18, 2026

Defense of 50 NT Passages Against “Faith Alone”, Pt. 4