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Purgatory & Scripture vs. Jeff Durbin

Purgatory & Scripture vs. Jeff Durbin

Last updated on: June 13, 2026 at 1:11 pm by Dave Armstrong

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Purgatory & Scripture vs. Jeff Durbin 2026-06-13T13:11:04-04:00 Dave Armstrong

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

His words are in blockquotes below, time-stamped to the video, so you can find each one in Jeff’s presentation.

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Today we’re responding to portions of a video called, “Pastor vs. Roman Catholic” (5-2-24) from Apologia Studios, which has 591,000 subscribers. This video has over 636,000 views and a whopping 13,286 comments. At the beginning of the tape, Pastor Jeff Durbin said:

[Jeff] What about the thief on the cross, where he said, “Jesus remember me when you come into your kingdom,” and he said, “I swear today, you will be with me in Paradise.” What’s important about that is that the thief went to Jesus for his forgiveness but also the thief didn’t go to a place called Purgatory.

The passage here is Luke 23:43. What’s called “paradise” here wasn’t heaven or purgatory, but rather, Hades, the abode of the dead until Jesus ascended. Jesus didn’t go to heaven until His ascension, forty days later. When He died, He visited Hades, according to Thayer’s Greek Lexicon, and this is where both the thief and Jesus would have gone that day. The Greek word is paradeisos [par-ROD’-ay-sose], Strong’s word #3857. Kittel, in his Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (one-volume edition, 1985, p. 777), defines it as “the intermediate abode of the redeemed.”

The same view is taken by The New Bible Dictionary (article on “Paradise”), Matthew Henry’s Commentary, John Wesley’s Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible, and Systematic Theology by the Baptist Augustus Strong.

Peter informs us that Jesus “went and preached to the spirits in prison” (1 Peter 3:19) and “the gospel was preached even to the dead” (4:6). Likewise, Paul stated about Jesus:

Ephesians 3:8-9 (RSV) . . . “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” [9] (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?

Therefore, the thief couldn’t possibly have been in heaven on the day he died, because Jesus wasn’t there yet. Nor is this purgatory. It’s Hades. It’s implied that the thief is saved, and in the good part of Hades. In Luke 16 in the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Hades has two divided compartments. Only saved people go to purgatory: all on their way to heaven in the end, so the thief still could have done so. Seeing that he was a thief and executed for that, he likely had sin on his soul that had to be cleansed before entering heaven. This passage doesn’t rule out that possibility, and is perfectly consistent with a scenario of purgatory, so it’s no disproof of it. It says nothing about it one way or the other.

There are some Protestants who think that Jesus went to heaven right after His resurrection, but I don’t see how, given the above passages about His preaching in Hades and then leading “a host of captives” out of it during His ascension. Paul specifically places this visit to Hades before the ascension and the leading of the captives during it. He was not in heaven after He died, before that.

[Jeff — 6:03] The Apostle Paul in his ministry, when he’s about to die he says that he doesn’t know what he wants to do. He’s hard pressed between two things: staying with them to minister to them is going to bless them; it’s for the glory of God, it’s all those things. He says, “but I want to depart and be with Christ which is far better” . . . and it says [in] Scripture, of course, “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.”

Pastor Durbin cites Philippians 1:23 and 2 Corinthians 5:8. He assumes, as Protestants routinely do, that this must refer to only heaven. But it can refer to purgatory just as easily, because souls in purgatory are also with God, since it’s a preparatory place or state for heaven, sort of like the ante-room to heaven. It’s not a second hell or a second chance.

Kenny recently made a very popular video by himself (it’s gotten 53,000 views in 13 days), called “ ‘Show Me ONE Verse for Purgatory’ — Here’s what to say!” that we’ll link to. In it he demonstrated that the one characteristic of virtually every passage in the Bible in which men first encountered God was fire; yes, fire! That, of course, sounds a lot like purgatory, doesn’t it? We also detailed this in our co-written book, called God of Love, Fire & Light: A Biblical Defense of Purgatory. Here are a few:

Isaiah 6:1, 4-7 In the year that King Uzzi’ah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple. [2] Above him stood the seraphim; each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. [3] And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory.” [4] And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke. [5] And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!” [6] Then flew one of the seraphim to me, having in his hand a burning coal which he had taken with tongs from the altar. [7] And he touched my mouth, and said: “Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin forgiven.”

Now it’s true that this isn’t an after-death experience, but it is a direct encounter with God, and we have fire (indicated by “filled with smoke”) and a burning coal that is placed on Isaiah’s “unclean lips”; thus cleansing, purifying and forgiving the sin and guilt. This is what it’s like to meet God: very much like how Catholics conceive purgatory. The prophet Daniel saw God as well, and this is how he described Him:

Daniel 7:9-10 . . . his throne was fiery flames, its wheels were burning fire. [10] A stream of fire issued and came forth from before him . . .

If anyone thinks it’s any different in the New Testament, here are five verses from there, too:

2 Thessalonians 1:7 and to grant rest with us to you who are afflicted, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire,

Hebrews 12:29 for our God is a consuming fire.

Revelation 1:14, 16 . . . his eyes were like a flame of fire, . . . [16] . . . and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.

Revelation 2:18 . . . the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire . . .

Revelation 19:12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, . . .

So it’s not biblically grounded: this idea that being in the presence of the Almighty God, Creator of the universe is something like a walk in the grass by a lovely stream, as Kenny described the stereotype in his excellent video. We know from many Bible passages that meeting God is very dramatic, awe-inspiring, and fiery. Thus, “being with God” can easily include purgatory. Just as God is with us when He is refining, purifying, cleansing, and chastising us, as many Bible passages describe, likewise, He is with us in purgatory in the same way, and this objection collapses. Here’s one last striking passage about being with God. Moses is speaking:

Deuteronomy 5:5, 24-26 while I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the LORD; for you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up into the mountain. . . . [24] and you said, `Behold, the LORD our God has shown us his glory and greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire; we have this day seen God speak with man and man still live. [25] Now therefore why should we die? For this great fire will consume us; if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, we shall die. [26] For who is there of all flesh, that has heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of fire, as we have, and has still lived?

But we have another related argument from Pastor Durbin:

[Jeff — 6:37] The Book of Revelation shows the martyred and departed believers from the first century in the presence of God worshiping before the throne.

This doesn’t disprove purgatory at all. The fact that some believers are described as being in heaven has no bearing on whether or not they also went through purgatory before they got there. It’s not necessary to always talk about purgatory every time heaven or being with God is expressed in the Bible. It might be retorted that this is an argument from silence. Technically, it is, but on the other hand, there is also no reason to think that this scene in heaven disproves purgatory in the slightest. But Pastor Durbin seems to think that it does, which is the curious thing. Then later in the video he asks:

[Jeff — 26:58] why would you have to go to purgatory if you have perfect peace with God and there’s no more condemnation?

[Jeff — 27:54] God has satisfied his justice in Jesus and we are counted righteous apart from our works, and God will never count our sins against us, so you don’t have that peace.

To the contrary, King David underwent suffering for his adultery and murder, even though he had repented and the prophet Nathan had told him that God had forgiven him and “put away” his sin. His son still died as a result. That’s in 2 Samuel 12:13-14. And later, his son Absalom led an armed rebellion against him.

Another example is the Jews who rebelled in the wilderness under Moses not being allowed to enter the Promised Land, even though God pardoned them as a result of Moses’ prayer. See Numbers 14:19-23. Even Moses himself couldn’t enter the Promised Land because he disobeyed God in an incident involving drawing water from the rock. He had repented and had been forgiven, too, no doubt (though I don’t think the Bible specifically notes that), but the punishment remained.

So forgiveness and peace with God can exist side-by-side with God’s chastisement, because the Bible says that “the Lord disciplines him whom he loves” (Hebrews 12:6), and that the end result is “the peaceful fruit of righteousness” (12:11). Therefore, this objection against purgatory fails, too, based on the Bible.

Resources

BIBLICAL Proof Purgatory is REAL! (8-29-24)

9 Things to say to your Protestant Friends about Purgatory (12-13-24)

Related Web Page

Saints, Purgatory, & Penance [section VI]

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Summary: Critique of Pastor Jeff Durbin’s comments about purgatory. We examine his misconceptions and present an alternate thoroughly scriptural exposition of purgatory.

Saints & Purgatory & Penance

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