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Icons: Gavin Ortlund’s 500-Year Absence Claim Refuted

Icons: Gavin Ortlund’s 500-Year Absence Claim Refuted

Last updated on: June 13, 2026 at 1:07 pm by Dave Armstrong

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Icons: Gavin Ortlund’s 500-Year Absence Claim Refuted 2026-06-13T13:07:07-04:00 Dave Armstrong

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Transcript of the main presentation (minus our discussion) for the video, Gavin Ortlund’s “No Evidence” Claim on Early Icons—REFUTED!! (8-9-25).

Summary: Reformed Baptist apologist Gavin Ortlund claimed that there is zero evidence of any positive adherence whatsoever to icons up to 500 AD. I produced four counter-examples and also a companion-article with many additional historical evidences.

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Reformed Baptist Dr. Gavin Ortlund runs the very popular YouTube channel Truth Unites, which has 134,000 subscribers and 513 videos.

Today, we’ll be responding to a portion of a video from Gavin in debate with Orthodox priest, Fr. Stephen de Young on images and the early Church’s view of them. A 71-second portion of it was tweeted on Protestant Collin Brook’s page on March 16th, 2024. It currently has 145,700 views and 275 likes. Baptist apologist James White retweeted it also on 3-16-24. Collin commented, “This part of [the] recent dialogue was savagery.”

If anyone wants to actually see the context and full discussion on icon veneration, rather than merely this supposed “gotcha!” soundbite, the entire video is called “Sola Scriptura or Holy Tradition? w/ Dr. Gavin Ortlund And Fr. Stephen De Young” (3-15-24 on The Transfigured Life channel. The portion on icons runs from 1:06 to 1:35. It was over 28 minutes in length, from which Collin Brooks chose 71 seconds: about 4.2% of the whole.

Now, let’s take a look at what Gavin stated. He said:

All the evidence that we have favors the view that any sort of cultic use of images was resoundingly rejected by Christians for the first 500 years of Church history . . . it’s everybody; it’s everywhere. It’s resounding, it’s clear, it’s bright. . . . If there’s anything we know about the early Church, we know that’s not what was happening. That is as clear as anything about the early Church. Can you name any advocate of icon veneration before 500 AD, . . . [who] says anything remotely positive about it?

Gavin makes a universal negative claim, which is always a bad and silly thing to do in any debate. He isn’t claiming that the evidence is scanty or a small minority etc., but that no one believed it for 500 years. Thus, to refute his insinuation, all one has to do is come up with one example. But I have four pretty good ones. St. John Chrysostom (c. 345-407) is one of the three great “Holy Hierarchs” of Eastern Christianity, and is universally regarded as one of the greatest Church fathers and doctors.

In his Homily 12 on First Corinthians, commenting on 1 Corinthians 4:10 (section 14), he rather casually describes Christians as “worshippers of the Cross”. The Schaff standard translation of the Church fathers even provides in parentheses the Greek words he used: ton stauron proskyousi [tun stow-ross pros-kee-Noo-see] literally, “they worship the cross.”

This provides a bridge to biblical language. Strong’s Greek word #4352: proskuneó [pros-koo-NEH-oh] appears 60 times in the New Testament, always in reference to worship of God. Its use in the Old Testament in the Greek Septuagint was much more broad, incorporating what we would call veneration. It was usually translating the Strong’s Hebrew word #7812: shachah. That’s what is going on in the following three passages:

Genesis 42:6 (RSV) . . . Joseph’s brothers came, and bowed themselves before him with their faces to the ground.

Genesis 19:1 The two angels came to Sodom in the evening; . . .When Lot saw them, he . . . bowed himself with his face to the earth,

Daniel 2:46 . . . King Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and did homage to Daniel, . . .

St. John Chrysostom – in light of these examples — could either have meant that they were venerating the cross, or that the cross represented God Himself and He was worshiped through it. This is how Catholics and Orthodox view icons.

Tertullian (c. 160-c. 225) likewise verifies that non-Christians viewed Christians as those who “render superstitious adoration to the cross” (Apology, ch. 16).

Methodius of Olympus (d. c. 311) is a Church father included in the standard 38-volume collection. He stated:

The images of God’s angels, which are fashioned of gold, the principalities and powers, we make to His honour and glory. (From the Discourse on the Resurrection, Part 2)

Epiphanius (c. 315-403) was a strong opponent of images; what is called an iconoclast. But as a “hostile witness” he proved that the practice was very widespread in the 4th century, since in his Letter to Emperor Theodosius, he stated:

I have often advised those who are reputed to be wise — bishops, doctors, and concelebrants — to take down those things. Not everyone paid attention to me, actually only a few.

Moreover, he wrote in another treatise, later titled Against Those Who, Following an Idolatrous Practice, Make Images with the Intention of Reproducing the Likeness of Christ, the Mother of God, the Angels and the Prophets:

But you will say to me, “The fathers detested the idols of the nations, but we make images of the saints in their memory, and we prostrate ourselves in front of them in their honor.” Precisely by this reasoning, some of you have had the audacity, after having plastered a wall inside the holy house, to represent the images of Peter, John, and Paul with various colors, . . .

Icons and veneration of images were widespread in early Christianity because the Bible had already made it clear that the practice was permissible, even with regard to adoring God the Father. Consider these two passages about God in the pillars of cloud and fire:

Exodus 33:9-10 When Moses entered the tent, the pillar of cloud would descend and stand at the door of the tent, and the LORD would speak with Moses. [10] And when all the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the door of the tent, all the people would rise up and worship, every man at his tent door.

2 Chronicles 7:1-4 When Solomon had ended his prayer, fire came down from heaven and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices, and the glory of the LORD filled the temple. [2] And the priests could not enter the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD filled the LORD’s house. [3] When all the children of Israel saw the fire come down and the glory of the LORD upon the temple, they bowed down with their faces to the earth on the pavement, and worshiped and gave thanks to the LORD, saying, “For he is good, for his steadfast love endures for ever.” [4] Then the king and all the people offered sacrifice before the LORD.

The distinction between worship and veneration (often mocked and derided by opponents of Catholicism) is clear in the New Testament itself, too. It states regarding the Philippian jailer that “trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas” (Acts 16:29). The Greek for “fell down before” is prospipto [pross-PEEP-toe] (Strong’s word #4363). It’s also used in five passages in Mark and Luke where Jesus was worshiped – we’ll put those on the screen (Mk 3:11; 5:33; 7:25; Lk 8:28, 47), but it can have either meaning. Paul and Silas didn’t rebuke the jailer, I submit, because they perceived that he wasn’t adoring them as only God can receive.

Protestants argue with regard to icons and statues that Catholics bowing before them is proof that they are “worshiping” them. Yet Paul and Silas didn’t think that when a man bowed down before them. His act was similar to that of Joshua with an angel:

Joshua 5:13-14 . . . Joshua . . . lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man stood before him with his drawn sword in his hand; . . . [14] And he said, “. . . as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and worshiped . . . (cf. Gen 19:1)

This is not God, because he refers to “the LORD” as other. St. Augustine, (City of God XI, 13) and St. Jerome (Commentary on Galatians, 3) and many other interpreters believe that this impressive “man” was the archangel Michael. In any event, the Hebrew word here (shachah: Strong’s word #7812) can be used both for worship / adoration of God and for veneration or honor of a creature. Context determines its specific meaning. Catholic reasoning regarding icons and statues has a firm biblical basis.

***

Companion-Article, with Much Additional Historical Substantiation

Widespread Image Veneration Before 500 AD (Contra Reformed Baptist Apologist Gavin Ortlund; Including the Opinions of Protestant Historians Philip Schaff and Jaroslav Pelikan; Similarity to the Veneration of Relics) [8-15-25]

Related Book

Biblical Evidence for the Communion of Saints (Feb. 2012, 152 pages)

Related Articles

Reply to Baptist Gavin Ortlund’s Critique of Icons [5-19-22]

Reply to Gavin Ortlund on Praying to the Saints (Including a Reply Regarding the [Blasphemous?] “Excesses of Marian Prayers” from the Protestant Point of View) [5-15-22]

Origen & Interceding Saints & Angels (vs. Gavin Ortlund) [3-13-24]

Reply to Gavin Ortlund’s “Relics: A Protestant Critique” [5-12-22]

Reply to Gavin Ortlund on Purgatory [5-12-22]

Reply #2 to Gavin Ortlund on Purgatory [5-14-22]

Related Web Pages

Saints, Purgatory, & Penance

My Videos Page (Catholic Bible Highlights / Lux Veritatis)

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