Buddhist Catholic Contemplative Evangelical General Christian Hindu Jewish Latter-day Saint Muslim New Visions Progressive Christian

Beliefs

Topics

Columnists

Resource Library

Research Tools

Video

Podcasts

Thought Readers

Faith In Media Tracker

Newsletters

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Follow Patheos

Home
Catholic
History and Religion
Vs. J. Oliveira #3: Mediating Saints

Vs. J. Oliveira #3: Mediating Saints

Last updated on: October 6, 2023 at 1:02 am by Dave Armstrong

0 Comments

Vs. J. Oliveira #3: Mediating Saints 2023-10-06T01:02:51-04:00 Dave Armstrong

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

[photo from Twitter]

***

Brazilian Protestant Juan Roberto de Oliveira is the author of the book, Nenhum Caminho Leva a Roma: O pecurso até o protestantismo [No Road Leads to Rome: The Path to Protestantism]. It has no date or publisher listed. But it was “recently released.” He’s a “law graduate” and is active on Twitter (now “X”) and, especially, Instagram. When I informed Juan of my replies, he quickly wrote on Twitter: “I’ll be rebutting your rebuttals.” I wish him all the best in that endeavor. If anyone discovers that he has ever answered any of my critiques, please let me know.
*
His words will be in blue. Translations from the Portugese of his book will be made with Google Translate (with an occasional additional modification). I will use RSV for Bible translations.

Just as I finished my tenth installment (10-5-23), Fraternidade Newman Brasil [Newman Brazil Fraternity] published a devastatingly comprehensive (and shocking) expose entitled “Apologética da Desonestidade: Evidências de Plágio e outras Trapaças no Livro do Protestante Juan Roberto Oliveira” [Apologetics of Dishonesty: Evidence of Plagiarism and other Cheating in the Book of Protestant Juan Roberto Oliveira].

In light of this new information, this will be my last critique. It’s a shame, because I was enjoying myself so much, and I felt that I came up with some fresh arguments, but this book deserves no further response. It was already a very weak, poor volume (desperately in need of an editor), even if these factors weren’t in play. What I have written thus far has, in my opinion, value in and of itself, as a ten-part Catholic apologetics “course.” So it wasn’t a waste of time at all. But no more. I’m only interested in responding to serious, adequately researched, honest apologetics.

*****

In 1 Timothy 2:5, it states that: “For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ.” That alone should be enough to believe that only Jesus can be the mediator between God and men. (p. 14).

. . . which is why the Council of Trent, in its Decree on the Invocation, Veneration, and Relics of the Saints and On Sacred Images (3 December 1563) stated that there is “one Mediator between God and men.” But the Bible, in its typical paradoxical, Hebraic manner, also refers to many “mini-mediators”. St. Paul and others — including, potentially, we ourselves — function as “mini-mediators” of God’s grace and salvation just like Mary does:

“Wife, how do you know whether you will save your husband? Husband, how do you know whether you will save your wife?” (1 Corinthians 7:16)
“I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.” (1 Corinthians 9:22; cf. 2 Corinthians 4:8-17)
“For by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.” (1 Timothy 4:16; cf. Ephesians 3:2 and James 5:20)
“Some . . . may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives” (1 Peter 3:1; cf. 4:10)

The Bible also teaches that we are his “co-workers” and that his works are ours and vice versa:

“The Lord worked with them” (Mark 16:20)
“We are God’s fellow workers” (1 Corinthians 3:9)
“I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God which is with me” (1 Corinthians 15:10)
“Always abounding in the work of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 15:58)
“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:10)
“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you” (Philippians 2:12-13).

The saints are simply helpers or chosen vessels, just as Moses or John the Baptist or Elijah or Paul or Peter or John or anyone else was. In no way does this impinge upon God’s sole prerogatives, because He is simply using one of His creatures for His divine purposes. There is nothing intrinsically impossible, excessive, idolatrous or unbiblical in these beliefs held by Catholics through the centuries and firmly entrenched in sacred tradition. It is not an a priori impossible or implausible belief to hold, from a biblical perspective. It’s completely harmonious with Scripture. Catholic apologist Patrick Madrid wrote, in a wonderfully informative article, of the many ways in which “mini-mediators” function in the Body of Christ:

When he commanded that “supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone . . . for this is good and pleasing to God our Savior” (1 Tm 2:1, 3), Paul was calling all Christians to exercise a “mini-mediatorship” through and in Christ. After all, someone who prays, supplicates, and petitions is a go-between—a mediator who goes to God on behalf of someone else and who asks the Lord to grant blessings, healing, strength, forgiveness, or salvation. Christian mediatorship through intercessory prayer is qualitatively different from the mediatorship of Jesus, and it is only possible because Jesus is the mediator between us and the Father. By his death on the cross we can go boldly into the presence of the Father and pray, intercede, petition, and supplicate on behalf of others (Eph 2:18, 1 Tm 2:1-4, Heb 4:16).

Another reason there’s no conflict between asking fellow Christians for prayers and believing that Jesus is the one mediator between God and man is that Jesus shares his other unique roles in lesser ways with Christians:

Jesus is the Creator of all things (Jn 1:1-3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:1-2), yet when it comes to creating human life Jesus shares this role with men and women. The human soul is created by God, out of nothing, at the instant the marital union produces a new body. The Lord could have chosen to create human life, body and soul, directly and unilaterally, but he did not, preferring instead to make his role as Creator dependent in a way on human action.

Jesus is the shepherd of his flock the Church (Jn 10:16), yet he shares his shepherdhood in a subordinate way with others, beginning with Peter (Jn 21:15-17) and extending it later to others (Eph 4:11). It is true that Jesus says he is the only shepherd (Jn 10:11-16), yet this seemingly exclusive statement does not conflict with him making Peter shepherd over the flock (Jn 21:15-17) or with his calling others to be shepherds as well (Eph 4:11). Peter emphasizes that Jesus shares his role as shepherd with others by calling Jesus the chief shepherd, thus implying lesser shepherds (1 Pt 5:4). Note also that the Greek construction of John 10:16 ([there is] one shepherd, heis poimen) is the same as 1 Timothy 2:5 ([there is] one mediator, heis mesites). The apostles and their successors, the bishops, are truly shepherds also.

Jesus is the high priest of the New Covenant, eternally present before the Father, mediating his once-for-all sacrifice for our redemption (Heb 3:1, 4:14-15, 5:5-10, 7:15-26, 8:1, 9:11). But the Bible also says Christians are called to share in Christ’s priesthood (1 Pt 2:5-9; Rv 1:6, 5:10, 20:6).

Jesus is the supreme judge (Jn 5:27, 9:39; Rom 14:10; 2 Cor 5:10; 2 Tm 4:1), yet Christians are called to share in Christ’s judgeship. They will be judges in heaven, even judging the angels (Mt 19:28, Lk 22:30, 1 Cor 6:2-3, Rv 20:4).

Jesus is the sovereign king of the universe (Mk 15:32; 1 Tm 6:15; Rv 15:3, 17:14, 19:16), but he shares his kingship with all Christians, who in heaven will wear crowns, sit on thrones, and reign as kings alongside Jesus—but always subordinate to him. Our Lord says, “I will give the victor the right to sit with me on my throne, as I myself first won the victory and sit with my Father on his throne” (Rv 3:21). (See also Mt 19:28; Lk 22:30; Rv 1:6, 5:10).

Jesus forgives our sins and reconciles us to the Father (2 Cor 5:18-21), but he calls us to share in various ways in his ministry of forgiveness and reconciliation (Mt 9:5-8, 18:18; Jn 20:21-22; Acts 2:38; 2 Cor 5:18-20; Jas 5:14-15).

Clearly, no Christian can usurp Christ’s unique roles as Creator, shepherd, priest, king, judge, and reconciler, but each Christian is called to share in these roles in subordinate ways. The principle of sharing in Christ’s roles extends, in the form of intercessory prayer, to Christ’s mediatorship as well. (“Any Friend of God is a Friend of Mine,” Catholic Answers, 5-1-09)

In order for it to be possible for Mary or other “saints” to hear millions of prayers and intercede for everyone, they would have to be omniscient and omnipresent. But we know that only God/Jesus has this power.Therefore, the intercession of the saints is a heresy and is unbiblical. . . .

Now, people who have already left the earth and are in the spiritual world can never intercede for someone, because they are not omniscient or omnipresent. (pp. 14-15)

I don’t see how this follows at all based on what we know from the biblical revelation. The basic fallacy assumed without argument here is that having great (even extraordinary and/or supernatural) knowledge is the same as having all knowledge. This is simply not true. It is nothing implausible — biblically speaking — to believe in faith that God chose to involve Mary and other saints in intercession. God can do whatever He wants! He once used a donkey to speak and express His will to Balaam. He appeared in a burning bush and in a cloud. He chose to come to earth as a baby. Why should anything He does or chooses to do surprise us, or make us wonder in befuddlement? The ending of Job makes this clear enough. His thoughts are as far above ours as the stars are above the earth (Isaiah 55:8-9).

God is sovereign over all of His creation. Literally, no one could do anything without His power. God makes it possible for Mary to hear millions of intercessory prayers and then present them to God on our behalf. No problem at all for him! It’s simply a portion of everything that He continually makes possible in every nanosecond. Paul says, “In him we live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28). The Bible says that Jesus is “upholding the universe by his word of power” (Hebrews 1:3) and that “in him all things hold together” (Colossians 1:17). God gave the prophets (and Bible writers like St. John in the book of Revelation) the capability of making predictions that came true or will come true in the future.

But we are to believe that enabling and empowering saints in heaven to hear intercessions and in turn intercede for us to God is too much for God to handle, or beyond His capabilities? That’s very curious. We are “in” the Father and the Son (John 17:21; 1 John 2:24), and “in” Jesus (John 6:56; 14:20; 15:4-7; 16:33; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Philippians 4:13; Colossians 2:6-7, 10; 1 John 2:24, 28; 5:20). God is in us (1 John 3:24; 4:13, 15) and we are “in” God (Colossians 3:3; 1 John 2:5, 24; 3:6, 24; 4:13, 15). Jesus is “in” us (John 14:20).

Even beyond all this, the Bible teaches that followers of Christ would be “united with him” (Romans 6:5), “one spirit with him” (1 Corinthians 6:17), “changed into his likeness” (2 Corinthians 3:18), “filled with all the fullness of God” (Ephesians 3:19) and “the fullness of Christ” (Ephesians 4:13); indeed, “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4).

We know that God can hear simultaneous prayers because he is outside of time (a Catholic dogma). C. S. Lewis compared this to God being an author of a book and our being the characters in the book. The author can go away for two years and then come back to his book and its fictional “timeline” as if no time has passed by. That’s how God is with our prayers. He’s not constrained by time because He’s not in it in the first place, as its creator.

The question then becomes: Are we creatures also outside of time (or do we at least transcend earthly time in some fashion?) when we get to heaven and enter eternity? Many philosophers of religion have thought so, on the grounds that heavenly eternity (for creatures) is not endless succession of time, but rather, the cessation of time as we know it from a particular point forward (rather like a ray in geometry). There are many mysteries about heaven, but who can say what it will be like — including our experience of time or lack thereof? It’s certainly possible that we could be outside of time: not eternally like God, but from the moment we get to heaven.

If human beings can invent computers that are able to produce extraordinary amounts of information and answers and solutions in a split second, is not an omniscient God great enough to enable His creatures to hear prayers in a way that transcends our earthly existence? It seems likely that heaven is a different dimension, or has more dimensions, and time is part of that framework. We know that heaven will be extraordinary and that we will have glorified bodies, and that now we only “see through a glass, darkly” as Paul stated (1 Corinthians 13:12), and that “eye has not seen” (1 Corinthians 2:9) etc. what God has prepared for us. Paul wrote how he was “caught up into Paradise” and “heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter” (2 Corinthians 12:3-4).

That being the case, saints hearing millions of prayers is no “problem” for God at all. It’s not by their power, but by His omnipotent power.

***
*

Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,300+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty-three books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I’m always in need of more funds: especially monthly support. “The laborer is worthy of his wages” (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a full-time Catholic apologist, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.

PayPal donations are the easiest: just send to my email address: [email protected]. You’ll see the term “Catholic Used Book Service”, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page: About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong / Donation Information. Thanks a million from the bottom of my heart!

***
*

Summary: An anti-Catholic throws out the “one mediator” objection and claims it’s impossible for saints to hear “millions of prayers.” I counter with scores of scriptures.

Anti-Catholicism

Saints & Purgatory & Penance

asking saints to pray

commuion of saints

intercession of the saints

invocation of saints

mediating saints

prayer to saints

Previous Post

September 28, 2023

Vs. J. Oliveira #2: Is Veneration Worship?

Next Post

September 30, 2023 Vs. J. Oliveira #4: Liguori's Mary

Recent Comments

0 | Leave a Comment

"Special pleading, and not a serious response to my arguments . . ."

Dave Armstrong

Is Venerating Men & Angels Worship? ..."

""no man needs to teach us."Didn't you just teach us?"

Dave Armstrong

Is Venerating Men & Angels Worship? ..."

""Catholics say they are the only church that can lead people into heaven."In fact, we ..."

Dave Armstrong

Is Venerating Men & Angels Worship? ..."

"And lastly, I belong to no denomination and am free to serve God as He ..."

Mariah

Is Venerating Men & Angels Worship? ..."

Browse Our Archives

Select a Category & Last Things About Me Anti-Catholicism Atheism & Agnosticism Baptism and Sacramentalism Bible and Tradition Blessed Virgin Mary Books by Dave Armstrong C. S. Lewis Calvinism & General Protestantism Catholic Apologetics Catholic Apologists Catholic conversion Catholic converts Christmas Church (Ecclesiology) Church History Conversion and Converts Development of Doctrine Eastern Orthodoxy Ecumenism & Christian Unity Eucharist & Liturgy Fathers of the Church French Translations G. K. Chesterton Hell Hell & Satan Hell & Satan & Last Things Heresies & Comparative Religion Holistic Health Inquisition & Crusades & Scandals James White Jews & Judaism & Old Testament John Calvin John Henry Newman Liberal / Modernist Theology Life Issues Literary Resume Lutheranism Mariology Martin Luther Music Orthodoxy Papacy & Infallibility Personal Page Philosophy & Science Political & Ethical & Moral Issues Protestant Persecution & Intolerance Protestantism Purgatory Purgatory & Penance Romantic & Imaginative Theology Saints & Purgatory & Penance Salvation Salvation & Justification Satan & Last Things Sexuality and Gender Issues Spanish Translations Traditionalism vs. Radical Catholic Reactionaries Traducciones al español / tradução para português Trinitarianism & Christology Uncategorized Videos

Select a Month October 2026 September 2026 August 2026 July 2026 June 2026 May 2026 April 2026 March 2026 February 2026 January 2026 December 2025 November 2025 October 2025 September 2025 August 2025 July 2025 June 2025 May 2025 April 2025 March 2025 February 2025 January 2025 December 2024 November 2024 October 2024 September 2024 August 2024 July 2024 June 2024 May 2024 April 2024 March 2024 February 2024 January 2024 December 2023 November 2023 October 2023 September 2023 August 2023 July 2023 June 2023 May 2023 April 2023 March 2023 February 2023 January 2023 December 2022 November 2022 October 2022 September 2022 August 2022 July 2022 June 2022 May 2022 April 2022 March 2022 February 2022 January 2022 December 2021 November 2021 October 2021 September 2021 August 2021 July 2021 June 2021 May 2021 April 2021 March 2021 February 2021 January 2021 December 2020 November 2020 October 2020 September 2020 August 2020 July 2020 June 2020 May 2020 April 2020 March 2020 February 2020 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 April 2010 March 2010 December 2009 October 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 March 2009 February 2009 October 2008 September 2008 April 2008 March 2008 February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 May 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 October 2005 June 2005 April 2005 February 2005 July 2004 May 2004 April 2004

TAKE THE

Religious Wisdom Quiz