Buddhist Catholic Contemplative Evangelical General Christian Hindu Jewish Latter-day Saint Muslim New Visions Progressive Christian

Beliefs

Topics

Columnists

Resource Library

Research Tools

Video

Podcasts

Thought Readers

Faith In Media Tracker

Newsletters

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Follow Patheos

Home
Catholic
History and Religion
On the Last Three Popes’ Appointments of Cardinals

On the Last Three Popes’ Appointments of Cardinals

Last updated on: September 1, 2023 at 11:15 am by Dave Armstrong

0 Comments

On the Last Three Popes’ Appointments of Cardinals 2023-09-01T11:15:22-04:00 Dave Armstrong

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

Traditionalists Have a Valid Point About Bad Appointments and the Disastrous Appeasement of Theological Liberals in the Church

[originally posted 7-18-22 on Facebook]

[dedicated to those who are under the illusion that I never criticize any pope for anything]

*****

This occurred on another Facebook page, with my friend and self-described “traditionalist” David Palm. (his words will be in blue).

Dave, with all due respect I think you’re on the wrong side of this discussion. The episcopal appointments of the last few papacies have been, let us charitably say, at best mixed with a strong edge toward bad. They have been skewed by an entrenched Vatican selection apparatus from which not even the last few popes have been able to break free themselves.

This is a prudential matter, not without precedent in history. Pope Francis has erred even more than his immediate predecessors on the wrong side of this mix. It’s an empirical matter at this point (see the blatant examples cited below, but feel free to cite the concrete counter-examples that in your view would make up for his bad appointments in major sees throughout the world and to the cardinalate.)

The fact that you won’t even admit that JPII and Benedict made some bad and some disastrous appointments and that Francis has done worse to me is evidence of a lack of a proper feedback loop — something you and I have discussed before.

But time and truth will out.

To the contrary, I was gonna say that the previous two popes were also roundly criticized for their appointments, too, as a rhetorical and analogical point. But they weren’t made the pariah and ugly straw man that Pope Francis has been made into, with a disgraceful wholesale “Americanist”-type and in my mind, Protestant-mentality, quasi-schismatic ecclesiological rebellion, especially in America.

So I think this point of yours is actually a point in favor of my argument of the grossly unfair and wrongheaded treatment of the Holy Father. It merely repeats, in this specific sense, the treatment of the previous two popes. If Francis is bad in this sense, so were Pope Benedict XVI and Pope St. John Paul II.

You yourself, along with many other traditionalists, attacked Pope St. John Paul II as virtually a ranting loose cannon in his last days. And there was the famous Koran incident and alleged heterodox, indifferentist mischief at the Assisi conference. It wasn’t that long ago. I remember those days well, because I defended the previous two popes, just as I defended this one from unjust attacks.

I would, however, largely agree with the criticisms of many appointments: of this pope and the two previous. I don’t follow those things (being too busy defending Holy Mother Church), but I’ll take your word for it, that they have been questionable. It’s a mystery to me.

In my own opinion, only rock-solid, faithful, 100% orthodox men should be appointed. I have no love lost for the theologically liberal / dissident / heterodox / so-called “progressive” viewpoint whatsoever. I absolutely despise these views: always have and always will. In many ways I am just as traditional as you are. No one has ever proven otherwise.

Now it’s fashionable — in the rush to prove that Pope Francis is the worst in history —, to pit him against the previous two popes. It won’t work: at least not for those of us who remember that recent history.

Are you able to admit that many of the episcopal appointments of JPII and BXVI were actually bad? If not, then we can’t really proceed on a common footing.

If you, like the rest of us, find yourself saying “Why don’t the bishops do something about [fill in the blank], but you don’t like the rest of us acknowledge that the majority of the episcopacy has been appointed by the last three popes, then I would suggest that your feedback loop is broken.

Yes. I conceded a few years ago now that the traditionalist point about soft treatment of liberals was valid. I’ve always been against that, but I knew from Fr. Hardon that the reason it was done was fear of schism. A while back I came to the position that this was not a good enough reason anymore and must be seen to be a tragic error. The Church must be much more firm and strict with the errors of liberals and dissidents.

So on this point I quite resonate with your view, I think. I was merely pointing out that this criticism also extends to JPII and Benedict. yet they are not considered raving liberals like Francis is (except among the most rabid reactionaries like Marshall, Voris, Coffin, Kwasniewski, et al).

I don’t think any of these three popes are / were raving liberals and subversives. But bad appointments? To the extent that liberals were promoted, I am in full agreement in passionate protest against that, per the above reasoning. And I’ve always held that viewpoint.

***

Practical Matters: Perhaps some of my 4,300+ free online articles (the most comprehensive “one-stop” Catholic apologetics site) or fifty-three books have helped you (by God’s grace) to decide to become Catholic or to return to the Church, or better understand some doctrines and why we believe them.

Or you may believe my work is worthy to support for the purpose of apologetics and evangelism in general. If so, please seriously consider a much-needed financial contribution. I’m always in need of more funds: especially monthly support. “The laborer is worthy of his wages” (1 Tim 5:18, NKJV). 1 December 2021 was my 20th anniversary as a full-time Catholic apologist, and February 2022 marked the 25th anniversary of my blog.

PayPal donations are the easiest: just send to my email address: [email protected]. You’ll see the term “Catholic Used Book Service”, which is my old side-business. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page: About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong / Donation Information. Thanks a million from the bottom of my heart!

***

Photo credit: Pope St. John Paul II [Flickr / CC BY 2.0 license]

***

Summary: I agree with the legitimate Catholic traditionalist complaint or criticism concerning appointments of cardinals and bishops during the last three pontificates.

Liberal / Modernist Theology

Papacy & Infallibility

Traditionalism vs. Radical Catholic Reactionaries

appointments of cardinals

Catholic bishops

liberal Cardinals

popes & appointments

tolerance of theological liberalism

Vatican hierarchy

Previous Post

August 30, 2023

Abraham: Justified Twice by Works & Once by Faith

Next Post

September 2, 2023 Apostolic Succession, Judas, & Matthias

Recent Comments

0 | Leave a Comment

"And lastly, I belong to no denomination and am free to serve God as He ..."

Mariah

Is Venerating Men & Angels Worship? ..."

"And obeisance doesn't mean "worship". It means "respect", "obey", or "submission". Very weird that you ..."

Mariah

Is Venerating Men & Angels Worship? ..."

"Many of these scriptures you have noted have been taken out of context. With Daniel, ..."

Mariah

Is Venerating Men & Angels Worship? ..."

""Protestants often point out that Jesus is now triumphant in heaven and object to Catholics ..."

Anthony

Three More Anti-Catholic Lies About Catholicism ..."

Browse Our Archives

Select a Category & Last Things About Me Anti-Catholicism Atheism & Agnosticism Baptism and Sacramentalism Bible and Tradition Blessed Virgin Mary Books by Dave Armstrong C. S. Lewis Calvinism & General Protestantism Catholic Apologetics Catholic Apologists Catholic conversion Catholic converts Christmas Church (Ecclesiology) Church History Conversion and Converts Development of Doctrine Eastern Orthodoxy Ecumenism & Christian Unity Eucharist & Liturgy Fathers of the Church French Translations G. K. Chesterton Hell Hell & Satan Hell & Satan & Last Things Heresies & Comparative Religion Holistic Health Inquisition & Crusades & Scandals James White Jews & Judaism & Old Testament John Calvin John Henry Newman Liberal / Modernist Theology Life Issues Literary Resume Lutheranism Mariology Martin Luther Music Orthodoxy Papacy & Infallibility Personal Page Philosophy & Science Political & Ethical & Moral Issues Protestant Persecution & Intolerance Protestantism Purgatory Purgatory & Penance Romantic & Imaginative Theology Saints & Purgatory & Penance Salvation Salvation & Justification Satan & Last Things Sexuality and Gender Issues Spanish Translations Traditionalism vs. Radical Catholic Reactionaries Traducciones al español / tradução para português Trinitarianism & Christology Uncategorized Videos

Select a Month October 2026 September 2026 August 2026 July 2026 June 2026 May 2026 April 2026 March 2026 February 2026 January 2026 December 2025 November 2025 October 2025 September 2025 August 2025 July 2025 June 2025 May 2025 April 2025 March 2025 February 2025 January 2025 December 2024 November 2024 October 2024 September 2024 August 2024 July 2024 June 2024 May 2024 April 2024 March 2024 February 2024 January 2024 December 2023 November 2023 October 2023 September 2023 August 2023 July 2023 June 2023 May 2023 April 2023 March 2023 February 2023 January 2023 December 2022 November 2022 October 2022 September 2022 August 2022 July 2022 June 2022 May 2022 April 2022 March 2022 February 2022 January 2022 December 2021 November 2021 October 2021 September 2021 August 2021 July 2021 June 2021 May 2021 April 2021 March 2021 February 2021 January 2021 December 2020 November 2020 October 2020 September 2020 August 2020 July 2020 June 2020 May 2020 April 2020 March 2020 February 2020 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 April 2010 March 2010 December 2009 October 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 March 2009 February 2009 October 2008 September 2008 April 2008 March 2008 February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 May 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 October 2005 June 2005 April 2005 February 2005 July 2004 May 2004 April 2004

TAKE THE

Religious Wisdom Quiz