Buddhist Catholic Contemplative Evangelical General Christian Hindu Jewish Latter-day Saint Muslim New Visions Progressive Christian

Beliefs

Topics

Columnists

Resource Library

Research Tools

Video

Podcasts

Thought Readers

Faith In Media Tracker

Newsletters

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Follow Patheos

Home
Catholic
History and Religion
Dialogue: Are Paul, the Bible, & Catholicism Against Sex?

Dialogue: Are Paul, the Bible, & Catholicism Against Sex?

Last updated on: February 11, 2020 at 8:12 pm by Dave Armstrong

Dialogue: Are Paul, the Bible, & Catholicism Against Sex? 2020-02-11T20:12:46-04:00 Dave Armstrong

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

This exchange took place on my blog, underneath the article, Dialogue: Is Catholic Virginity an “Anti-Sex” Viewpoint? Words of anti-theist-type agnostic 90Lew90 will be in blue. Words of fellow Catholic Susan Schudt (who earned an MA in theology and MS in chemical engineering) will be in green.

*****

It’s clear in 1 Corinthians 7 that Paul takes a dim view of sex, seeing it as unfortunate at best, and that marriage is an exculpatory measure against the sins of lust and fornication.

It’s hardly a ringing endorsement for the joys of sex. It’s interesting that you had to dig out the Song of Solomon to find some romantic verse. The New Testament is deeply anti-sex and Catholicism has erected a cult of virginity. I’m sorry, but I don’t know how it can be seen any other way.

Christians believe that the entire Bible is inspired revelation from God, so it’s irrelevant and downright silly: this notion that I had to “dig out” the Song of Solomon in order to find a presentation of sexuality in the Bible. It’s in there. There are all sorts of things in the Bible. If the biblical worldview was supposedly so “anti-sex” these passages in Song of Solomon simply wouldn’t be there.

Are we to take it, by the same logic, that the biblical worldview is “pro-war”?

Forgive me, but you really do have to “dig out” the Song of Solomon to find anything romantic in the Bible among the myriad injunctions against sexual relations of this kind or that, and the reams of bloodcurdling accounts of wars, and rape, and murder, etc.

The Song of Solomon is a practically a needle in a haystack. And it is clear, is it not, that Paul takes a dim view of sex, and much of Christian sexual morality is derived from Paul.

We are to take it that the Bible is not pacifist (a different proposition from “pro-war”). I’ve written about it (way back in 1987).

Right, so in answering whether or not the Bible is anti-sex, you dig out the Song of Solomon. One representation of romantic sexual love, in this supposed guide to life from the heavens. One. Given the centrality of sexuality in human life, one would have thought there might be a bit more about it than a single love poem.

There is plenty in Christian doctrine, and perhaps Catholic doctrine especially, which is anti-sex, whatever way you cut it. The framework within which human sexual relations are supposed to take place is restrictive to the extent that it can’t realistically be expected of healthy, fully-functioning people. Healthy intimacy between people, playful sex in all of its manifestations is not only discouraged, but is presented as Satanic, not least by Paul in 1 Corinthians.

It is important to understand 1 Corinthians 7 within the context of the crisis Paul was addressing, as well as the fact that it is one of his earlier letters. From 1 Corinthians 7 to Ephesians 5 provides a wonderful example of Development of Doctrine (it doesn’t lose its proper substance, moves towards a greater understanding of the truth of Jesus Christ, and never betrays the fundamental nature of previous teachings). The marital covenant, and thus intercourse, images the union of Christ and His Church, and is therefore holy.

This old chestnut. Isn’t it ever possible to take anyone at their word in the Bible?

Looked at plainly, Paul takes a dim view of sex in that passage. We might speculate that he thought the End Times were imminent, but since that proved not to be the case, and all we’re left with is Paul’s views on sex, it remains clear that he took a dim view of sex.

That dim view carries through undiminished into Christian tradition. Call it “development of doctrine” or whatever. Christians, for all their obsession with sex, do not celebrate sex. At all.

I am also not sure how you reconcile your understanding of Paul with verse 14: “For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband.” This is through marriage. Even in the context of the chapter your understanding of Paul’s ‘dim view’ is suspect. Marriage (and what goes on within it) leads to sanctity, plainly.

A note on marriage: Marriage is not sex. Marriage is a sacrament in itself. It is by the sacrament that the unbeliever is “made holy”, through the union with the believer in the eyes of God/the Church. Even at that, the Catholic Church has its preconditions, as I’m sure you’re aware.

Sexuality is fundamental to Catholic marriage and its sacramentality. “The two shall become one flesh.” We hold that the primary purpose of marriage (and sex) is to produce children): if this is possible. If someone is infertile, that’s different; it’s not willfully choosing not to procreate. So sex is not separate from it. Nice try, though!

Marriage is clearly nothing more than an exculpatory compromise so that if one must have sex, then one can have an outlet for it without falling into sin.

It is also made clear that it would be best for all involved if they could just remain celibate — or even better, a virgin.

“I say this as a concession, not as a command. I wish that all of you were as I am.”

The moral is: If you must have sex. Get married. If you can go without, do so.

It couldn’t be more clear.

You don’t understand Paul’s basic point in 1 Corinthians 7 (I agree with Susan’s insightful comments). His central point is found in three verses:

7:7 (RSV, as throughout, except for one passage below from NIV) I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.

7:17 Only, let every one lead the life which the Lord has assigned to him, and in which God has called him. . . .

7:20 Every one should remain in the state in which he was called.

For Paul (and for God: for all who believe the Bible is inspired revelation), each person has a calling, which includes the married vs. single states and also vocation and estate in life. Each person ought to determine what their calling from God is, and abide by it. This is the basis of our celibate priesthood. We believe that certain men were called by God to lead a celibate life: a life of (as Paul puts it) “undivided devotion to the Lord” (7:35).

It’s very practical, realistic advice. Paul was just arguing in 7:32-34 that the married man understandably wants to “please his wife” whereas the single man who wants to be in ministry can give undivided attention to God. Hence, in Catholicism we have this notion of priests and religious (nuns, etc.) being “married to the Lord.”

So all Paul is saying is that each person should figure out what state he was called to. This is not “anti-marriage” or “anti-sex” in the slightest, or your so-called “dim view.” If it is “anti” anything, it is “anti-not following one’s calling.”

We do believe that consecrated celibacy is a higher state, because of the sacrificial renunciation involved. But it doesn’t follow that we look down on marriage or sex. Marriage is a sacrament, which means that it gives grace to the couple. And there are passages about spouses helping to save each other.

Paul also gets into the practical, realistic business of sex drives and urges. If someone struggles with an undue passion or possibly lust as well, then Paul states matter-of-factly: “it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion.” This is not anti-marriage or anti-sex, either. It’s simply stating the obvious. In a (biblical, Catholic, and traditional Protestant and Orthodox) worldview which holds that the only lawful moral sex is in marriage, between a man and a woman (open to procreation), this is self-evident. There is no option (morally) to simply fornicate and leave it at that. Sex belongs in marriage and the commitment inherent therein. So if the natural passions and drives (which are never condemned in Scripture; only lust) are present and increasing, then it is wise to marry.

As Susan also mentions, you have to look at Ephesians 5 also:

Ephesians 5:25-32 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
[26] that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
[27] that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
[28] Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
[29] For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church,
[30] because we are members of his body.
[31] “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
[32] This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church;

1 Corinthians 7 was ultimately about one’s calling in life, whereas Ephesians 5 is describing marriage and its purpose, and it is described as the man loving his wife as Christ loved the Church (dying so that anyone who accepts His grace and follows His commandments can be saved), and loving her as he does his own body. And they “become one flesh.” How that is somehow not the most positive, glowing view of both marriage and the unitive, life-giving sexual component of it, is, I confess, a mystery to me.

If you are going to make claims about what Paul thinks, you have to look at all his epistles, not just one chapter of one (that itself doesn’t prove what you claim, anyway; quite the opposite, as I shall proceed to demonstrate).

Even in 1 Corinthians 7 there are “sex is great!” elements. St. Paul strongly implies that married couples should should have sex often and flat-out asserts that each spouse “owns” the other’s body:

7:3-5 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. [4] For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does. [5] Do not refuse one another except perhaps by agreement for a season, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, lest Satan tempt you through lack of self-control.

Anti-sex? A dim view of sex, or thinking it is bad and evil? Hardly! It’s the exact opposite.

Genesis 2:24-25 expresses God’s plan for human sexuality and marriage:

Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh. [25] And the man and his wife were both naked, and were not ashamed.

They were to “be fruitful and multiply” (Gen 1:28; repeated in 9:1 and 9:7 with regard to Noah’s sons and daughters-in-law).

We also see explicitly sexual passages like these:

Proverbs 5:18-19 (NIV) May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. [19] A loving doe, a graceful deer– may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be intoxicated with her love. (translation is similar, including “breasts” in KJV and NASB and other translations)

Hebrews 13:4 Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled . . .

I disagree that there is/was ever a dim view about sex within marriage from Sacred Scripture or the Tradition of the Church. You have misunderstood, as many have. Sex within marriage has always been considered holy. Perhaps its holiness is something the world cannot fathom (and therefore the misunderstanding of the Christian viewpoint), because for the world sex is something that is desired for its own sake (pleasure), rather than for the sake of self-giving love that images God and is fruitful. To not see sex through the eyes of faith and reason is to be blind to its sacredness and celebration in Christian marriage. Development is not to have a new idea. It is to have a deeper understanding of what is.

I’ll get to it [i.e., my long, in-depth reply above]. In all of my reading — and I’m not reading biased sources, what would be the point? — nobody at all, ever pretends that Paul is “pro-sex”. I’m prepared to make concessions, I’m prepared to be charitable if necessary, though I’ll be clear where I am being charitable. But really, if you’re going to take the frankly daft line that Paul was “pro-sex”, I already feel disinclined to give this the effort I had intended. That Paul was “pro-sex” is just not supportable.

Reply to my long comment, then. I look forward to what you say. Simply repeating an assertion over and over (which is basically what you are doing) is not even rational argumentation (and I’m sure, is one of the logical fallacies). But if this is the beginning of your opting out of discussion, then I will take that as a forfeiture in our little debate. There is an old saying: “a man convinced against his will, retains his original view still.”

It is indeed a logical fallacy (what you have been doing). It’s the argument by repetition, or argumentum ad nauseam:

. . . (also known as: argument from nagging, proof by assertion). Description: Repeating an argument or a premise over and over again in place of better supporting evidence. [source one / see also a second source]

I’ll see your logical fallacy and give you an absurdity: Trying to pretend that Paul was “pro-sex”. Sorry, but that’s just taking it way too far. There is simply no way you can retrofit enthusiasm for sex into anything Paul said, whatever the context or impact of a newer, more accurate translation. It is just plainly absurd. It’s as clear from what he didn’t say as much as what he did.

I’d prefer it if this didn’t descend into pettiness. If you’re going to continue to push this absurdity, count me out.

I see. So you have no answer and no longer wish to continue what I thought was a construction and helpful discussion. In any event, I do sincerely thank you for what has occurred thus far, and especially for maintaining your cordiality, and not bringing it down to the usual level of atheist or agnostic vs. Christian discussion (i.e., rank insults and name-calling and pure condescension, which usually occurs, and on both sides).

Take care, and I hope you comment in the future on my blog. Perhaps we can discuss other things that (for you) do not attain to the level of “plainly absurd.”

It’s as clear from what he didn’t say as much as what he did.

Not to nitpick, but for the sake of logic, this is also a fallacy: the argument from silence, or argumentum ex silentio. Rational Wiki describes it:

An argument from silence is an informal fallacy that occurs when someone interprets someone’s or something’s silence as anything other than silence, typically claiming that the silence was in fact communicating agreement or disagreement.

The fallacy is an argument from ignorance and an informal fallacy.

I’m busy at the moment. I’m scribbling marginal notes on a hard copy of your longer post. You’ll have to bear with me while I put together a response. It’s not exactly top of my to-do list, you’ll understand!

Did you change your mind? You just stated 52 minutes ago that my stated view was “absurdity”, and “count me out.”

Cool. I’ll await your reply and add it to the new posted dialogue if and when it is posted (and of course I will counter-reply, if you offer something beyond argumentum ad nauseam and argumentum ex silentio).

I have a question for you — do you think the marital embrace is holy? I don’t read Paul like you read Paul… at all. The holiness of marriage is all through Sacred Scripture, OT and NT. Marriage is not sex, true…but sex belongs in marriage alone, and is sanctifying in marriage alone. Paul knew that. I think he would ask you to go read Ephesians 5 as an answer to you, but who am I to speak for Paul? I think he said what he needed to say to the people who needed to hear it. And I think his words are timeless through the centuries in the Church’s teaching. Marriage and all that goes with it is holy, and it has been “from the beginning.”

Frankly, who cares what you think about some arbitrary ritual rule carried over into Christianity from the superstitions of an even older cult?

Ephesians 5? Ah yes, the bit that sanctioned God knows how much marital rape. Great stuff.

That is your jaded, absurd “take” on Ephesians 5. There is nothing whatever about “rape” in there. The man must love his wife like Christ loved the Church (dying for her). Jesus didn’t rape His Church, or His own body (see 5:28-29).

So you would say, I assume, that there are Christians who have taken the subjection verses and abused them as a pretense to rape their wives. Yes, of course. There are always nuts and fanatics and evil people who will abuse any and all passages of Scripture (just as you do yourself!). That doesn’t make the passage itself evil and wicked. It simply doesn’t teach what you claim it does.

Please interact with my long comment. This is not the place for you to merely spew garden variety, warmed-over, half-baked atheist talking-points. I’ll put up with some of that, but not on a sustained basis, including ignoring relevant, on-topic replies to what you have already stated.

***

Sexual Revolution: Not “Liberation” But Societal Tragedy [8-6-01]

Christian Sexual Views and Support from Sociology (Discussions About Christian Sexual Morality and Marriage with Atheists) [12-8-06]

Q & A: Catholic Sexual Morality and Contraception [1-1-08]

Does St. Paul Sanction Premarital Sex (1 Cor 7:36)? [11-21-09]

Dialogue with Atheists: Sexist, Misogynist Bible? [9-20-10]

1 Corinthians 7:36-38: Is it About a Fiancee or a Daughter? [1-31-14]

Virgin Birth & Perpetual Virginity: “Anti-Sex”? [5-21-14]

Woman-Hating Catholic Church?: Reply to an Atheist [10-1-15]

Is Bestiality a Secular Sex Reductio ad Absurdum? [12-21-15]

Catholic Sexuality: A Concise Explanation & Defense [12-29-15]

Catholic Sexuality: Cordial Dialogue with an Agnostic [12-30-15]

Mutual Submission & Headship: Contraries? [5-3-16]

Natural Family Planning: Anti-Sex & Anti-Pleasure? [1-23-17]

Forbidding Marriage? Consecrated Virginity & the Catholic “Both / And” [9-13-17]

Dialogues on the Sexual Revolution & Weinstein’s Victims [10-14-17]

Sex and Catholics: Our Views Briefly Explained [National Catholic Register, 2-2-18]

Epstein and Weinstein: The Fruit of the Sexual Revolution [11-4-17; rev. 7-19-19]

***

Unfortunately, Money Trees Do Not Exist: If you have been aided in any way by my work, or think it is valuable and worthwhile, please strongly consider financially supporting it (even $10 / month — a mere 33 cents a day — would be very helpful). I have been a full-time Catholic apologist since Dec. 2001, and have been writing Christian apologetics since 1981 (see my Resume). My work has been proven (by God’s grace alone) to be fruitful, in terms of changing lives (see the tangible evidences from unsolicited “testimonies”). I have to pay my bills like all of you: and have a (homeschooling) wife and two children still at home to provide for, and a mortgage to pay.

My book royalties from three bestsellers in the field (published in 2003-2007) have been decreasing, as has my overall income, making it increasingly difficult to make ends meet. I provide over 2700 free articles here, for the purpose of your edification and education, and have written 50 books. It’ll literally be a struggle to survive financially until Dec. 2020, when both my wife and I will be receiving Social Security. If you cannot contribute, I ask for your prayers (and “likes” and links and shares). Thanks!

See my information on how to donate (including 100% tax-deductible donations). It’s very simple to contribute to my apostolate via PayPal, if a tax deduction is not needed (my “business name” there is called “Catholic Used Book Service,” from my old bookselling days 17 or so years ago, but send to my email: [email protected]). Another easy way to send and receive money (with a bank account or a mobile phone) is through Zelle. Again, just send to my e-mail address. May God abundantly bless you.

***

Photo credit: Adam and Eve, by David Teniers the Younger (1610-1690) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

***

Sexuality and Gender Issues

sacrament of matrimony

sex

sexuality

Previous Post

February 10, 2020

Is Catholic Male-Only Priesthood Inherently Sexist?

Next Post

February 11, 2020 Salesian Apologetics #7: Objections to St. Peter the Rock

Browse Our Archives

Select a Category & Last Things About Me Anti-Catholicism Atheism & Agnosticism Baptism and Sacramentalism Bible and Tradition Blessed Virgin Mary Books by Dave Armstrong C. S. Lewis Calvinism & General Protestantism Catholic Apologetics Catholic Apologists Catholic conversion Catholic converts Christmas Church (Ecclesiology) Church History Conversion and Converts Development of Doctrine Eastern Orthodoxy Ecumenism & Christian Unity Eucharist & Liturgy Fathers of the Church French Translations G. K. Chesterton Hell Hell & Satan Hell & Satan & Last Things Heresies & Comparative Religion Holistic Health Inquisition & Crusades & Scandals James White Jews & Judaism & Old Testament John Calvin John Henry Newman Liberal / Modernist Theology Life Issues Literary Resume Lutheranism Mariology Martin Luther Music Orthodoxy Papacy & Infallibility Personal Page Philosophy & Science Political & Ethical & Moral Issues Protestant Persecution & Intolerance Protestantism Purgatory Purgatory & Penance Romantic & Imaginative Theology Saints & Purgatory & Penance Salvation Salvation & Justification Satan & Last Things Sexuality and Gender Issues Spanish Translations Traditionalism vs. Radical Catholic Reactionaries Traducciones al español / tradução para português Trinitarianism & Christology Uncategorized Videos

Select a Month October 2026 September 2026 August 2026 July 2026 June 2026 May 2026 April 2026 March 2026 February 2026 January 2026 December 2025 November 2025 October 2025 September 2025 August 2025 July 2025 June 2025 May 2025 April 2025 March 2025 February 2025 January 2025 December 2024 November 2024 October 2024 September 2024 August 2024 July 2024 June 2024 May 2024 April 2024 March 2024 February 2024 January 2024 December 2023 November 2023 October 2023 September 2023 August 2023 July 2023 June 2023 May 2023 April 2023 March 2023 February 2023 January 2023 December 2022 November 2022 October 2022 September 2022 August 2022 July 2022 June 2022 May 2022 April 2022 March 2022 February 2022 January 2022 December 2021 November 2021 October 2021 September 2021 August 2021 July 2021 June 2021 May 2021 April 2021 March 2021 February 2021 January 2021 December 2020 November 2020 October 2020 September 2020 August 2020 July 2020 June 2020 May 2020 April 2020 March 2020 February 2020 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 April 2010 March 2010 December 2009 October 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 March 2009 February 2009 October 2008 September 2008 April 2008 March 2008 February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 May 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 October 2005 June 2005 April 2005 February 2005 July 2004 May 2004 April 2004

TAKE THE

Religious Wisdom Quiz