Buddhist Catholic Contemplative Evangelical General Christian Hindu Jewish Latter-day Saint Muslim New Visions Progressive Christian

Beliefs

Topics

Columnists

Resource Library

Research Tools

Video

Podcasts

Thought Readers

Faith In Media Tracker

Newsletters

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Follow Patheos

Home
Catholic
History and Religion
Pope Francis (and Others) and Analogies to Jesus

Pope Francis (and Others) and Analogies to Jesus

Last updated on: January 6, 2020 at 2:11 pm by Dave Armstrong

Pope Francis (and Others) and Analogies to Jesus 2020-01-06T14:11:36-04:00 Dave Armstrong

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

Explanation of a Widely Misunderstood Aspect of Analogical Arguments

Someone responded underneath my paper, Dialogue: Pope Francis vs. Gospel Preaching & Converts? No! (vs. Eric Giunta). His words will be in blue.

*****

First, the following words in my paper were cited (I added, however, two more paragraphs of my original words here, for clarification):

He’s making one of his extreme contrasts. It’s just how he [Pope Francis] talks. But so did Jesus. He said, for example:

Luke 14:26 If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

It’s hyperbole, of course, but atheists and many others completely miss the point because they wrongly interpret hyper-literally. Elsewhere, Jesus clarifies what He meant:

Matthew 10:37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;

He explains how He is not pitting one thing against another. It’s not literally hate; it’s relative degrees of allegiance. Same thing with the pope. He’s not saying that we ought to hate or reject evangelism; only that we need to do it with the right spirit. And that’s made clear the more we examine his overall thought on the topic, as I and others like Jimmy Akin have done (and you clearly haven’t done).

Dave, you’ve used this kind of argument before and I don’t think it’s a good one.

1. The pope isn’t Jesus.

2. The situation of Jesus’ hearers in the first century AD isn’t necessarily the same as people who listen to the pope today. Did you teach your children right and wrong using parables or “extreme contrasts.”?

It’s irrelevant (and silly) to note that he isn’t Jesus (we knew that already). That doesn’t defeat the analogical reasoning, which is as follows:

Jesus does or says x.

Since He is God, He is perfect, and this can’t be wrong or sinful.

Jesus is also our model for behavior.

Therefore, if one of us does or says the same thing, it also can’t be objectively wrong or sinful.

Making an extreme contrast for emphasis is one of these things.

I have agreed again and again that it would be good (or better) for the pope to clarify when he is misunderstood. But just because he is misunderstood, it doesn’t make him wrong; as was also the case with Jesus, Who was massively misunderstood, even when He did explain Himself. When this happened, many times He would say, “you don’t have the ears to hear, and the eyes to see” or that they had hardened hearts.

But does the pope believe he has been misunderstood, particularly on the need for Muslims and Jews to convert? Look at what the pope told the Muslims which I quoted above. If someone were to say that the pope believes there was a sharp break in teaching on non-christian religions between pre-V2 and V2 would the pope say he has been misunderstood?

I’ve been round and round with this evangelism pseudo-controversy. If you don’t get it, you don’t. With people who are determined to be hostile to this pope, evidence is irrelevant. Also, reactionaries and traditionalists have the hardest time comprehending the nature of authentic ecumenism, and the fact that it is perfectly harmonious with apologetics and evangelism. There is a time and a place for everything.

Ecumenism is perfectly biblical and it didn’t appear from nowhere at Vatican II. For example, the term and notion of “separated brethren” goes back at least as far as Pope Leo XIII: 125 years ago. Even Pope St. Pius X used the term “dissident brothers” (dissidentes fratres).

Principles of ecumenism were elucidated by St. Thomas Aquinas. And they are thoroughly grounded in the Bible. Nor is Vatican II’s Nostra Aetate “religiously pluralistic” & “indifferentist”.

These are all myths and old wives’ tales. For much more on this, see my Ecumenism and Christian Unity web page.

Not every aspect of Jesus’ life is a role model for us. Would you approve of Francis calling the Jewish leaders in Rome a “brood of vipers”?

If they deserved it, sure. It’s correct if the recipient is worthy to be called it.

***

Another variation of this same sort of fallacy with regard to analogies and analogical reasoning occurred yesterday and today on my Facebook page, with my friend, the former evangelical (and politically far left) atheist Jon Curry (his words in green below).

I had noted how the former NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick had blasted “terrorist” America for killing the terrorist Iranian general Someilani, on the grounds that we always supposedly attack “Black and Brown people.” I commented on the article I linked to:

How much you wanna bet he was cheering when President Obama okayed the killing of the brown brother Osama bin Laden? I would bet the farm on that.

In other words, this was my comment on the (I think) likely hypocrisy of Kaepernick (as opposed to a complete equation of General Someilani and Osama bin Laden). It was a political observation: Kaepernick (like almost all liberals today) was quick to pounce on Trump; so I wondered aloud if he had had the same reaction when President Obama had Osama bin Laden killed. I highly doubt it.

But then Jon (as is his wont) dug in and committed similar fallacies having to do with analogical arguments: in two different ways. Here is our exchange:

You’re going to equate Someilani, a guy who fought against ISIS with OBL?

Stalin fought Hitler, didn’t he?

[Jon was arguing, in effect, “hey, this guy fought ISIS! So [strong insinuation] he can’t be nearly as evil as bin Laden!” My retort was another logical observation: that fighting against an evil group does not prove that one is not himself or herself evil; hence, a prime example of “evil against evil”: Stalin fighting Hitler. Stalin was no less evil because he fought another extraordinarily evil person, like himself]

So…Someilani is now Stalin? A week ago you had never heard of him and yet so quickly the war propagandists can have you equating him with Stalin and OBL?

[now Jon has made the same mistake twice: the analogical logic employed here simply doesn’t require an equation to be made. For my point to be a valid one I didn’t have to equate Someilani with Osama bin Laden or Stalin (nor did such a thing ever cross my mind). Jon simply doesn’t grasp the sequence of reasoning: and this is very common when analogies are made. Also, when Hitler and/or Stalin are mentioned — even when it is relevant to the discussion –, the reaction is usually emotional and knee-jerk and not logical]

Once again, it is the common mistake of pretending that an obvious partial analogy is intended equivalence. You’re not nearly that stupid, to make such an elementary logical mistake.

***

Unfortunately, Money Trees Do Not Exist: If you have been aided in any way by my work, or think it is valuable and worthwhile, please strongly consider financially supporting it (even $10 / month — a mere 33 cents a day — would be very helpful). I have been a full-time Catholic apologist since Dec. 2001, and have been writing Christian apologetics since 1981 (see my Resume). My work has been proven (by God’s grace alone) to be fruitful, in terms of changing lives (see the tangible evidences from unsolicited “testimonies”). I have to pay my bills like all of you: and have a (homeschooling) wife and three children still at home to provide for, and a mortgage to pay.

My book royalties from three bestsellers in the field (published in 2003-2007) have been decreasing, as has my overall income, making it increasingly difficult to make ends meet. I provide over 2600 free articles here, for the purpose of your edification and education, and have written 50 books. It’ll literally be a struggle to survive financially until Dec. 2020, when both my wife and I will be receiving Social Security. If you cannot contribute, I ask for your prayers (and “likes” and links and shares). Thanks!

See my information on how to donate (including 100% tax-deductible donations). It’s very simple to contribute to my apostolate via PayPal, if a tax deduction is not needed (my “business name” there is called “Catholic Used Book Service,” from my old bookselling days 17 or so years ago, but send to my email: [email protected]). Another easy way to send and receive money (with a bank account or a mobile phone) is through Zelle. Again, just send to my e-mail address. May God abundantly bless you.

***

Photo credit: Jesus at the Home of Martha and Mary, by Jacopo Tintoretto (d. 1594) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

***

Catholic Apologetics

Papacy & Infallibility

Analogical arguments

analogies to Jesus

arguments from analogy

comparative religion

comparisons with Jesus

ecumenical

Ecumenism

inter-religious dialogue

Pope Francis' approach compared to that of Jesus

salvation outside the Church

Previous Post

January 5, 2020

Martin Luther on the Exact Nature of Being "Biblical"

Next Post

January 6, 2020 Catholic Sexuality: A Concise Explanation & Defense

Browse Our Archives

Select a Category & Last Things About Me Anti-Catholicism Atheism & Agnosticism Baptism and Sacramentalism Bible and Tradition Blessed Virgin Mary Books by Dave Armstrong C. S. Lewis Calvinism & General Protestantism Catholic Apologetics Catholic Apologists Catholic conversion Catholic converts Christmas Church (Ecclesiology) Church History Conversion and Converts Development of Doctrine Eastern Orthodoxy Ecumenism & Christian Unity Eucharist & Liturgy Fathers of the Church French Translations G. K. Chesterton Hell Hell & Satan Hell & Satan & Last Things Heresies & Comparative Religion Holistic Health Inquisition & Crusades & Scandals James White Jews & Judaism & Old Testament John Calvin John Henry Newman Liberal / Modernist Theology Life Issues Literary Resume Lutheranism Mariology Martin Luther Music Orthodoxy Papacy & Infallibility Personal Page Philosophy & Science Political & Ethical & Moral Issues Protestant Persecution & Intolerance Protestantism Purgatory Purgatory & Penance Romantic & Imaginative Theology Saints & Purgatory & Penance Salvation Salvation & Justification Satan & Last Things Sexuality and Gender Issues Spanish Translations Traditionalism vs. Radical Catholic Reactionaries Traducciones al español / tradução para português Trinitarianism & Christology Uncategorized Videos

Select a Month October 2026 September 2026 August 2026 July 2026 June 2026 May 2026 April 2026 March 2026 February 2026 January 2026 December 2025 November 2025 October 2025 September 2025 August 2025 July 2025 June 2025 May 2025 April 2025 March 2025 February 2025 January 2025 December 2024 November 2024 October 2024 September 2024 August 2024 July 2024 June 2024 May 2024 April 2024 March 2024 February 2024 January 2024 December 2023 November 2023 October 2023 September 2023 August 2023 July 2023 June 2023 May 2023 April 2023 March 2023 February 2023 January 2023 December 2022 November 2022 October 2022 September 2022 August 2022 July 2022 June 2022 May 2022 April 2022 March 2022 February 2022 January 2022 December 2021 November 2021 October 2021 September 2021 August 2021 July 2021 June 2021 May 2021 April 2021 March 2021 February 2021 January 2021 December 2020 November 2020 October 2020 September 2020 August 2020 July 2020 June 2020 May 2020 April 2020 March 2020 February 2020 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 April 2010 March 2010 December 2009 October 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 March 2009 February 2009 October 2008 September 2008 April 2008 March 2008 February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 May 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 October 2005 June 2005 April 2005 February 2005 July 2004 May 2004 April 2004

TAKE THE

Religious Wisdom Quiz