Buddhist Catholic Contemplative Evangelical General Christian Hindu Jewish Latter-day Saint Muslim New Visions Progressive Christian

Beliefs

Topics

Columnists

Resource Library

Research Tools

Video

Podcasts

Thought Readers

Faith In Media Tracker

Newsletters

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Follow Patheos

Home
Catholic
History and Religion
“Young Messiah”, Dramatic License, & Biblical Theology

“Young Messiah”, Dramatic License, & Biblical Theology

Last updated on: March 24, 2017 at 2:06 pm by Dave Armstrong

“Young Messiah”, Dramatic License, & Biblical Theology 2017-03-24T14:06:38-04:00 Dave Armstrong

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

KorahDathan

The Death of Korah, Dathan and Abiram (1865), by Gustave Doré (1832-1883) [public domain / Wikimedia Commons]

* * * * *

See my lengthy treatment of the theology of this film, and my follow-up.

* *

This exchange occurred in the combox of my first post (above). The words of John (Catholic) will be in blue.

* * * * *

It’s just a movie! Chill out!

It’s just a theologically certain truth about our Lord Jesus Christ that is denied here. Get serious!

So did you really believe that the earth opened up an swallowed all the people and the molten calf into a pit of bottomless fire when Moses threw the ten commandments at them in disgust? Is that in the bible? It’s not about ‘exactness’. It’s not suppose to be. Books and movies engage the imagination. Anything is possible…with God. We don’t know about the childhood of Jesus. A little conjecture is harmless…unless one takes the movie too serious…

Yes I do, and that is in the Bible. I’m a Catholic, and so I believe in, and am bound to what the Church teaches about Jesus.

You’re either not a Catholic, or you are and don’t care about the Church’s Christology. I can’t make you care about that, but I can at least show you and anyone who reads my paper what the Church teaches about it.

Really??? What bible do you use??? What verse says that the earth opened up and swallowed the people into the flames when Moses threw the tablets at them??? For the record…I am very much Catholic…just not an ‘extremist’…

Alrightey. With the golden calf, the Levites judged and killed 3,000 men (Ex 32:15-28).

I had that confused with another instance: the rebellion of Korah:

Numbers 16:32 (RSV) and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men that belonged to Korah and all their goods. (cf. 26:10)

So Cecil B. DeMille’s Ten Commandments conflated the two incidents (taking dramatic license: not objectionable, I think, in this instance). Both took place at roughly the same time: during the Jews’ 40 years wandering in the wilderness.

But DeMille’s “dramatic compression” of two distinct but related biblical stories was not that far off, because the rebellious Biblical figure Dathan was portrayed in some depth in the film, by Edward G. Robinson. Dathan indeed was swallowed up by the earth, as the film showed. It was just in a context other than the golden calf:

Numbers 16:27-34 So they got away from about the dwelling of Korah, Dathan, and Abi’ram; and Dathan and Abi’ram came out and stood at the door of their tents, together with their wives, their sons, and their little ones.
[28] And Moses said, “Hereby you shall know that the LORD has sent me to do all these works, and that it has not been of my own accord.
[29] If these men die the common death of all men, or if they are visited by the fate of all men, then the LORD has not sent me.
[30] But if the LORD creates something new, and the ground opens its mouth, and swallows them up, with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive into Sheol, then you shall know that these men have despised the LORD.”
[31] And as he finished speaking all these words, the ground under them split asunder;
[32] and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men that belonged to Korah and all their goods.
[33] So they and all that belonged to them went down alive into Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly.
[34] And all Israel that were round about them fled at their cry; for they said, “Lest the earth swallow us up!”

Deuteronomy 11:6 and what he did to Dathan and Abi’ram the sons of Eli’ab, son of Reuben; how the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households, their tents, and every living thing that followed them, in the midst of all Israel;

Psalm 106:17 the earth opened and swallowed up Dathan, and covered the company of Abi’ram.

Of course, such a conflation is quite different from making up myths out of whole cloth, that Jesus, God the Son, God incarnate, fully God and fully man, was an ignoramus about Who He was (even as a child). That ain’t in the Bible, and is directly contrary to a “theologically certain” Catholic teaching.

Meanwhile, oddly enough, John the Baptist in the womb, somehow knew Who Jesus was (Lk 1:39-44). So we are to believe that preborn John (a mere man) knew more about Who Jesus was, than Jesus, God the Son, did Himself, at age seven? I don’t think so.

I showed that the contrary is indeed Catholic teaching. So if you are an observant Catholic, your burden is to demonstrate how my documentation is somehow faulty, or else admit that you don’t care what the Church teaches on this. If the later, it seems that you are the “extremist”, not I. I made a simple human mistake of memory. But there was indeed an event in which the earth swallowed up rebels against God.

Liberals can simply “spiritualize” that away and say it was symbolism (one of their favorite games), But that just shows that they are not serious in their Bible interpretation. They pick and choose whatever they want to believe.

I don’t know if you are a liberal or not. It depends how you view the Bible and Catholic dogmas and doctrines and teachings, and Church authority.

I think that if you were to remove your ‘apologist’ eyeglasses, and put on your ‘inner child’ eyeglasses, and then go see the movie again…you might notice something that the mighty intellect tends to keep hidden – Something that Jesus ‘attempted’ to tell us with His statement “unless you become as children you will not enter the kingdom of heaven”. Or…you can wait…and do what He said later?

I repeat: “It’s just a movie”!!! Movies are for entertainment. The movie did not tear down Jesus as you suggest. It magnified His humanity…which many people NEED to see. At the same time, it showed His powers, and the contempt that people had toward Him.

If you do decide to take my suggestion and go see it again, I would highly suggest that you pray for the grace to ‘chill’ as you go in. Don’t bother even going to see it again if you’re going to analyze it again…because the results will be the same. Rather, ask the Holy Spirit to ‘enlighten’ you and help you see what HE wants you to see, rather than what YOU try to see on your own? God bless!

Obviously, you care not one whit about Catholic theology in this regard, which is very sad. But there are millions of Catholics like you, which highlights the need for people like me, to help them harmonize the mind and theology with a pious faith and trusting childlike discipleship.

Jesus said that “you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength” (Mark 12:30). He didn’t separate the mind. Being childlike doesn’t mean having an irrational, solely subjective, gullible faith. Hence, St. Paul wrote:

Ephesians 4:13-14 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; [14] so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.

I must care about my Catholic Theology…or else I would have never noticed the ‘incorrect’ scene in the Ten Commandments, no? I know the difference between what is real and what is not real. You thought it was in the bible. I never take movies seriously. Why would I? The whole point of a movie is to entertain…for a PROFIT!!! That’s your basic Catholic Theology 101 right there. As soon as you ‘pay’ to see something…beware…you’re being entertained. I’d rather have that simplistic understanding than all the apologetic views on the planet. When watching a movie…or reading a book…it’s ALWAYS important to know who wrote it…and why. I do my homework…

My own (rather strong) opinion is that when a movie purports to treat Christian, biblical history, that it has a responsibility to get the facts right and the doctrine correct.

Otherwise, why bother at all with theological advisers? Obviously their input has to do with what should and shouldn’t be presented, in terms of what Catholics (or Christians) believe. If this doesn’t matter why have these advisers? This movie had them. I just think some of them were mistaken.

There are plenty of biblical movies that are perfectly orthodox, and that I like and have no problem with. I even liked Noah and that took plenty of liberties, but contained no heresy or theological falsehood that I am aware of.

As I said in my paper, my concern is that many millions will 1) assume that the material is indeed in the Bible, when it isn’t, and 2) will believe that Jesus didn’t know Who He was at some point in His life, which contradicts a “theologically certain” teaching of the faith.

Films can go a long ways by way of historical fiction (in the very best sense). Hence, Risen takes the theme of a secular Roman perspective of the purported Resurrection. There is nothing wrong with that (unless, e.g., it portrayed a stolen body or “Passover Plot” or some other ridiculous alternate theory). One can go beyond the biblical text, while not contradicting it, or any Christian doctrine. Risen is a superb example of that.

I think Catholic art or Christian art must seek to be consistent with those worldviews. Many great biblical movies like Jesus of Nazareth (by a major director, yet), and The Passion were orthodox (excepting a denial of Mary’s virginity in partu — during birth — in the former), and both of these were great art and extremely moving. We don’t have to choose between one or the other. I say do great art and keep it within orthodoxy.

The problem with the current film is that it involves a very subtle Christological doctrine, where there is obviously some confusion afoot. The confusion originated in the early heresies and theological liberalism / modernism after 1800.

People should know the difference between a film and the faith, but millions do not, and that is the problem. As an apologist, my job is to defend the faith and correct erroneous theology, and I have done so.

I don’t treat cinematic films as “catechesis”, but on the other hand, it is naive to suppose that many millions won’t take in what they see in this film and regard it henceforth as “true fact.” That’s just how reality is. I’m as idealist as anyone, but we have to live in the actual reality of things, too.

* * *

I guess you wouldn’t think too much of a theological teaching like this one about Jesus, seeing that you wrote six months ago:

It’s really quite amazing how the institution of the RCC truly reflects the population of a mental institution, under the ‘control’ of medication and rules. It’s like walking among the dead…or zombies. They ‘look’ alive…but are they? Or are they ‘desperately’ needing a little ‘spark’ from the Holy Spirit…

I thought I’d heard everything about the Church . . . One Flew Over the Catholic Cuckoo’s Nest?

As one who used to attend charismatic churches, who believes in the continuance of all the gifts and in healing, who has been healed (and whose wife has been healed), who has been “slain in the Spirit” many times, and who experienced a very profound “renewal” in the Holy Spirit in 1980, that changed my life forever and led me to my apologetics apostolate, your complaints about Catholics [i.e., being “walking dead” or “zombies”] hardly apply to me.

I’m very uncomfortable around people who claim to be ‘healed’ or ‘sane’. And yet…at the same time…it always makes me grateful to see myself for who I am. I’m so thankful and grateful for the sacraments, that treat my ongoing ‘human’ condition. I’m happy for you and your wife that both of you are healed and have no further need for any kind of ‘followup’ treatment. It certainly sheds a lot of light on your movie review and subsequent comments though! Thank you very much!

I’m afraid I do lay claim to being “sane.” Sorry for that shortcoming. I pray that you’ll be able (by God’s grace) to overcome your confessed insanity in due course.

You appear to be using “healing” here in a purely spiritual sense (healing from sin or propensity to sin). We have no disagreement there; nor about the role of the sacraments. I used it in the sense of “supernatural cure of serious clinical depression and of severe pain from lifelong scoliosis.” I haven’t had need of a follow-up treatment for depression. I have never had serious / despairing / hopeless depression since my six-month experience of it in 1977. Nor has my wife ever since had the extreme pain she had prior to her healing in the early 1980s.

That’s kind of sad really. I don’t mind being thought to be insane. Jesus was thought to be insane as well. I don’t think He minded either. He knew full well that there would be some who accepted Him and others who would not because of His ‘contradictory’ nature. It didn’t seem to deter Him whether He was thought to be insane or not. He didn’t but into the label thing. He was most comfortable hanging out with the rejects of society. The ones that society labeled. Why would I want to ‘overcome’ my confessed insanity? Would that bring me closer to Jesus?

Yes, a sane person is closer to Jesus than an insane one, because Jesus was falsely accused of being insane.

Have a great day. We’ve strayed far from the Bible, which is what you obviously wanted to argue about at first (taunting me as a possible “extremist”), till I showed that the incident you mocked actually was in the Bible (though not in conjunction with the golden calf).

Since you no longer want to discuss the Bible, and never began talking about Catholic theology and doctrine, we’re through.

Philosophy & Science

Trinitarianism & Christology

consciousness of Christ

Divine Nature of Christ

drama & theology

dramatic license

human nature of Christ

Nestorianism

Omniscience of Jesus

The Young Messiah

two natures of christ

Previous Post

March 17, 2016

Invocation of Saints & the Bible: Dialogue

Next Post

March 18, 2016 Lenten Meditation: Suffering & Comfort (Psalms)

Browse Our Archives

Select a Category & Last Things About Me Anti-Catholicism Atheism & Agnosticism Baptism and Sacramentalism Bible and Tradition Blessed Virgin Mary Books by Dave Armstrong C. S. Lewis Calvinism & General Protestantism Catholic Apologetics Catholic Apologists Catholic conversion Catholic converts Christmas Church (Ecclesiology) Church History Conversion and Converts Development of Doctrine Eastern Orthodoxy Ecumenism & Christian Unity Eucharist & Liturgy Fathers of the Church French Translations G. K. Chesterton Hell Hell & Satan Hell & Satan & Last Things Heresies & Comparative Religion Holistic Health Inquisition & Crusades & Scandals James White Jews & Judaism & Old Testament John Calvin John Henry Newman Liberal / Modernist Theology Life Issues Literary Resume Lutheranism Mariology Martin Luther Music Orthodoxy Papacy & Infallibility Personal Page Philosophy & Science Political & Ethical & Moral Issues Protestant Persecution & Intolerance Protestantism Purgatory Purgatory & Penance Romantic & Imaginative Theology Saints & Purgatory & Penance Salvation Salvation & Justification Satan & Last Things Sexuality and Gender Issues Spanish Translations Traditionalism vs. Radical Catholic Reactionaries Traducciones al español / tradução para português Trinitarianism & Christology Uncategorized Videos

Select a Month October 2026 September 2026 August 2026 July 2026 June 2026 May 2026 April 2026 March 2026 February 2026 January 2026 December 2025 November 2025 October 2025 September 2025 August 2025 July 2025 June 2025 May 2025 April 2025 March 2025 February 2025 January 2025 December 2024 November 2024 October 2024 September 2024 August 2024 July 2024 June 2024 May 2024 April 2024 March 2024 February 2024 January 2024 December 2023 November 2023 October 2023 September 2023 August 2023 July 2023 June 2023 May 2023 April 2023 March 2023 February 2023 January 2023 December 2022 November 2022 October 2022 September 2022 August 2022 July 2022 June 2022 May 2022 April 2022 March 2022 February 2022 January 2022 December 2021 November 2021 October 2021 September 2021 August 2021 July 2021 June 2021 May 2021 April 2021 March 2021 February 2021 January 2021 December 2020 November 2020 October 2020 September 2020 August 2020 July 2020 June 2020 May 2020 April 2020 March 2020 February 2020 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 April 2010 March 2010 December 2009 October 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 March 2009 February 2009 October 2008 September 2008 April 2008 March 2008 February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 May 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 October 2005 June 2005 April 2005 February 2005 July 2004 May 2004 April 2004

TAKE THE

Religious Wisdom Quiz