Patheos

BuddhistCatholicContemplativeEvangelicalGeneral ChristianHinduJewishLatter-day SaintMuslimNew VisionsProgressive Christian

Beliefs

Topics

Columnists

Resource Library

Research Tools

Video

Podcasts

Thought Readers

Faith In Media Tracker

Newsletters

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Patheos

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Follow Patheos Patheos on Facebook Patheos on YouTube

bibleandculture

Walter Moberly’s The God of the Old Testament– Part Sixteen

Last updated on: February 21, 2021 at 1:09 am   by Ben Witherington

Walter Moberly’s The God of the Old Testament– Part Sixteen 2021-01-07T17:13:51-05:00 Ben Witherington

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

Q. I wonder if you have come across the work of Michael Heiser? He has a whole book on Angels, and quite a lot to say about Ps. 82 as a conversation between God and other supernatural beings, not between God and human beings. I wonder what you think about that idea? The concept involves angels being related to different nations or ethnic groups and being partially responsible for their living in accord with God’s will.

A. No, I haven’t read Michael Heiser. My immediate response is that his proposal sounds like a variant of the common scholarly understanding of the deities in Ps. 82 as tutelary deities as in Deut. 32:8-9. Although this makes sense, I don’t go along with it for the reasons I give in my chapter.

Q. One of the things Heiser points out about Psalm 82 is the language of ‘other’ does not occur in this psalm, and that the use of Elohim does not necessarily suggest we are talking ANE deities here. More likely the term should just be translated supernatural beings and refer to God’s angelic council, like in Job 1-2 where the Satan shows up as part of that divine council. You also point out the lack of ‘other’ language in Ps. 82 and ponder why no Yahweh language (p. 106). But perhaps it is because this psalm is not about God’s relationship with Israel but rather as the sole deity in relationship with the world, maintaining justice. This then has echoes of ‘let us make man…’ from Genesis 1 which also is a non-Yahweh text, and with Job 1 as well. Furthermore, the natural way to read the court scene in Daniel 7 is that 7.10 refers to God’s angelic entourage, who attends to him, not least because angels are quite specifically mentioned or named in that book. And one has to ask, why would a Yahwist think that pagan deities are part of Yahweh’s court and beings with whom he would consult. Further, God expects positive things out of his angels and when they sin they are judged. The point here would be that God would expect his angels to uphold divine justice, care about the orphan etc. but why in the world would he be conferring with and more importantly expect such things of Gods like Dagon or Baal? I can think of no reason. Lastly, why can’t Gen. 6.1-4 come into play here? At the end of Ps. 82 we hear that the Elohim are children of the most high, which is not unlike the reference to the Sons of God who came down and mated with the daughters of humanity. Further, the calling of these beings princes also suggests angels. And clearly, both Jude and 2 Peter take that text to be referring to angelic misbehavior which God will judge, as he does Satan in Revelation. How does this strike you?

A. All this is a possible reading of the biblical text. And insofar as it resonates with understandings of angels in Christian tradition, I do not dismiss it. Nonetheless, I resist it as a reading of Ps. 82 in its OT context. One of the key contentions in my reading – less common than the point about the association of true divinity with justice – is that the divine “council” in Ps. 82 is an imaginative scenario, used to make a point, and that this is equally true of the other explicit depictions of a “divine council” elsewhere in the OT, Job 1:6-12, 2:1-6 and 1 Kgs 22:19-23 (of which I have offered close readings elsewhere). I am proposing that the biblical writers were happy to use the common ancient image of deities in council, presided over by a supreme deity – which is analogous to a king and his counsellors on earth – as a scenario that could vividly make a point (somewhat like Jesus’ use of the postmortem scenario of the rich man and Lazarus in Lk. 16:19-31).

Uncategorized

Previous Post



February 20, 2021

Walter Moberly's The God of the Old Testament-- Part Fourteen

Next Post



February 22, 2021 Walter Moberly's The God of the Old Testament-- Part Seventeen


Browse Our Archives

Select a Category Uncategorized

Select a Month October 2026 September 2026 August 2026 July 2026 June 2026 May 2026 April 2026 March 2026 February 2026 January 2026 December 2025 November 2025 October 2025 September 2025 August 2025 July 2025 June 2025 May 2025 April 2025 March 2025 February 2025 January 2025 December 2024 November 2024 October 2024 September 2024 August 2024 July 2024 June 2024 May 2024 April 2024 March 2024 February 2024 January 2024 December 2023 November 2023 October 2023 September 2023 August 2023 July 2023 June 2023 May 2023 April 2023 March 2023 February 2023 January 2023 December 2022 November 2022 October 2022 September 2022 August 2022 July 2022 June 2022 May 2022 April 2022 March 2022 February 2022 January 2022 December 2021 November 2021 October 2021 September 2021 August 2021 July 2021 June 2021 May 2021 April 2021 March 2021 February 2021 January 2021 December 2020 November 2020 October 2020 September 2020 August 2020 July 2020 June 2020 May 2020 April 2020 March 2020 February 2020 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011


Follow Us!

Follow Us on Facebook



TAKE THE

Religious Wisdom Quiz

I sent an army of singers before my army, and God set ambushes against our enemies. Who am I?

Select your answer to see how you score.

Asa Jehoshaphat David Hezekiah

Books by This Author Books by Ben Witherington

See All Titles »

Related posts from The Bible and Culture

Family

Westminster Abbey-- Part Three

The Bible and Culture

Family

Westminister Abbey-- Part Two

The Bible and Culture

Family

Westminster Abbey-- Part One

The Bible and Culture

Family

Methodist Central Hall and Westminster Abbey

The Bible and Culture

TRENDING AT PATHEOS Evangelical

The Dating Recession: Why 70% of Singles Aren't...

If you’re single and dating feels unusually hard right now, you’re not...

The Great Matter: Walking the Zen Way

(This talk was delivered by Dharma Holder Mo Myokan Weinhardt at the...

Netflix Narnia Update

The official trailer for the Netflix Narnia movie has been released.  Director...

Why Halloween Is So Popular – And So...

Numerous sources say that Halloween is now the second most popular holiday...

Westminster Abbey-- Part Three

There are many more novelists, poets, playwrights and actors in poet's corner...

South Carolina Brought the Firing Squad Back. Now,...

  The military intends to pull Nidal Hassan out of his wheelchair,...

view all Evangelical blogs

Patheos on Facebook Patheos on YouTube

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Copyright 2008-2026, Patheos. All rights reserved.

Subscription Support Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In

Follow Patheos Patheos on Facebook Patheos on YouTube