Kingdom Conspiracy– Part Four

Last updated on: March 13, 2015 at 10:46 pm by Ben Witherington

Kingdom Conspiracy– Part Four 2015-03-13T22:46:20-04:00 Ben Witherington

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

BEN: I think I’ve begun to nail down both our similarities and differences on kingdom, church, and Israel. If we are just talking kingdom and church, I think we mostly agree. But the term Israel, especially in Rom. 9-11 absolutely does not refer to the church. It refers to Jews, period. Yes, the new Gentile people of God are grafted into the Christian Jewish root. This involves Gentiles being added to the Jewish Christian root seen as the righteous remnant, people such as Paul not Jews in general.

But Paul studiously and carefully avoids calling Israel the church. Here Tom Wright is Tom Wrong, again and again, and again. Israel, according to both Paul, and Jesus has a future when Christ returns. It is then when ‘the impiety of Jacob (which is never a synonym for the church) will be turned away, when the redeemer comes forth from heavenly Zion’ at the second coming. Then by grace and through faith in Jesus their Messiah, a large number of Jews (called ‘all Israel’) will be saved.

Gal. 6 is no different. It is not calling for a blessing on the church, rather a blessing is added ‘even on the Israel of God’ not to be confused with ‘the assembly (e.g. church) of God’. So the mystery in Romans 11 is the final eschatological adding of a large number of Jews after the full number of Gentiles have come into the people of God, and in the very same manner. The houtos… kathos structure of Rom. 11.26-27 is clear. It means that Jews will be saved in the very same manner as the full number of Gentiles have been saved— by grace through faith in Jesus.

In the meanwhile a hardening has come on part of Israel (=Jews who don’t believe in Jesus) who have been temporarily broken off from the people of God and will eventually be able to be grafted back in. So the story is not about adding Gentiles to Israel in general, but adding Gentiles to Jewish Christians, the righteous remnant, and meanwhile, the majority of Israel has been broken off until the eschaton. The interesting thing is, for Paul ‘Israel’ retains its original valence. It does not mean Jew and Gentile united in Christ. It simply means Jews, even when they are broken off from the genuine people of God. And the reason they are still called Israel is because Jesus isn’t finished with his fellow Jews until the eschaton, until he returns. God has not reneged on his promises to non-Christian Israel. He will fulfill them one day through their messiah, Jesus.

SCOT: I do think this is one of the cutting edge lines in the discussion, and it is not dramatically important for kingdom=church, but it is still related and my conviction that the church is grafted into the trunk of Israel creates for me (anyway) more continuity in Israel-church and therefore for kingdom-church. But in an earlier note from you I caught wind of this set of conclusions for you.

BEN: What do you make of Rom.14.17? This surely seems to suggest the Kingdom has to do with the saving activity of God in the believer producing love, joy etc. and this is dramatically contrasted with, say, sharing a fellowship meal with others.

And P.S. what about the Lord’s Prayer where Kingdom is paralleled with the enacting of God’s will on earth. Surely, we are not praying ‘may thy people come (or come back from heaven’) in this prayer?

SCOT: I see Rom 14:17 as believers only, not social or public. Hence, it is the ethic of kingdom people. It’s not just ethics but community ethics. Yes, saving activity … but again, there are five elements and this is one of them… sometimes one can take on the whole theme (as in Luke 11:28 so too with Rom 14:17). What is the alternative? Ethical behavior itself isn’nt enough: there must be a people among whom that ethic is lived out. You say as much in your 2 vols on ethics.

On Lord’s prayer: the prayer is for God’s vision for the world, a people living under him in peace, love, justice, on earth. It is not just power or redemption or will but that realization among God’s people.

I’ve been teaching this for 10 years or more and these are two texts that do come up, esp Rom 14:17 by the skinny jeans folks and the former among the pleated pants people. Im doing my best to keep both of them either on guard or unhappy!

BEN: Alrighty then. I still say that we are not praying for a people to come, and there are some NT texts which simply do not refer to the people of God, but rather to the activity of God, whether amongst his people or elsewhere. For example, when Jesus says ‘I saw Satan fall like lightning from the sky, this is surely a reference to divine activity, and not in the context of the Christian community. Obviously I assume you would agree that God can certainly act outside the context of the church, and that he does so. I would agree with you that the place where one is most likely to find the kingdom is in the church context. Of course that is true.
I’m on p. 102. So would you say that the work that Wliberforce did to get Parliament to change the laws on slavery was NOT in any way Kingdom or church work? If so, Mr. Wesley would strong disagree with you.

SCOT:On the presence, I agree that we are to be agents of God’s presence and hope I said that somewhere.

Praying for the kingdom though is to pray for kingdom conditions, not least justice as seen in Magnificat and Benedictus, so it is not just God’s action but God creating the world he wants.

BEN: If we are praying for it, it’s still out there in the future, and will not be consummated until Jesus returns and we get heaven on earth, and no, its not just about justice happening within the context of the local church.

In the meanwhile, I’m hoping you are not saying the civil rights movement had nothing to do with kingdom and church mission. BTW, Selma is a pretty good movie, it brought back a lot of memories for me.

I also think Wilberforce was pretty darn clear that his work to force a change in parliament in regard to slavery laws was indeed church and kingdom mission and work. Wesley certainly thought so.

SCOT:
It’s a prayer and longing for the future consummation of God’s kingdom on earth.

Civil rights movement is the way Christians ought to behave for the betterment of the world. Good works to be sure.

Uncategorized

Previous Post

February 10, 2015

Finding Jesus: Fact, Faith, or Forgery

Next Post

February 12, 2015 Kingdom Conspiracy--- Part Five

Browse Our Archives

Select a Category Uncategorized

Select a Month November 2026 October 2026 September 2026 August 2026 July 2026 June 2026 May 2026 April 2026 March 2026 February 2026 January 2026 December 2025 November 2025 October 2025 September 2025 August 2025 July 2025 June 2025 May 2025 April 2025 March 2025 February 2025 January 2025 December 2024 November 2024 October 2024 September 2024 August 2024 July 2024 June 2024 May 2024 April 2024 March 2024 February 2024 January 2024 December 2023 November 2023 October 2023 September 2023 August 2023 July 2023 June 2023 May 2023 April 2023 March 2023 February 2023 January 2023 December 2022 November 2022 October 2022 September 2022 August 2022 July 2022 June 2022 May 2022 April 2022 March 2022 February 2022 January 2022 December 2021 November 2021 October 2021 September 2021 August 2021 July 2021 June 2021 May 2021 April 2021 March 2021 February 2021 January 2021 December 2020 November 2020 October 2020 September 2020 August 2020 July 2020 June 2020 May 2020 April 2020 March 2020 February 2020 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 August 2019 July 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 February 2019 January 2019 December 2018 November 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 September 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 May 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 October 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011

TAKE THE

Religious Wisdom Quiz