BuddhistCatholicContemplativeEvangelicalGeneral ChristianHinduJewishLatter-day SaintMuslimNew VisionsProgressive Christian
Beliefs
- Buddhist
- Catholic
- Contemplative
- Evangelical
- General Christian
- Hindu
- Jewish
- Latter-day Saint
- More Voices
- Muslim
- New Visions
- Pagan
- Progressive Christian
Topics
- Religion News
- Food and Religion
- Sports and Religion
- Religious Art
- Religious Music and Entertainment
- Religious Events
- History and Religion
- Style and Religion
- Politics and Religion
- Women in Religion
- Recreation Outdoors and Religion
- Business Finance and Religion
- Careers Workplace and Religion
- Education and Religion
- Family Parenting and Religion
- Health Fitness and Religion
- Home and Religion
- Relationships and Religion
- Technology and Religion
- Travel and Religion
Columnists
- Buddhist Columnists
- Business Finance and Religion Columnists
- Careers Workplace and Religion Columnists
- Catholic Columnists
- Contemplative Columnists
- Education and Religion Columnists
- Evangelists Columnists
- Family Parenting and Religion Columnists
- General Christian Columnists
- Health Fitness and Religion Columnists
- Hindu Columnists
- History and Religion Columnists
- Home and Religion Columnists
- Jewish Columnists
- More Voices Columnists
- Latter Day Columnists
- Muslim Columnists
- New Visions Columnists
- Nonreligious Columnists
- Pagan Columnists
- Politics and Religion Columnists
- Progressive Columnists
- Recreation Outdoors and Religion Columnists
- Relationships and Religion Columnists
- Religion News Columnists
- Religious Art Columnists
- Religious Events Columnists
- Religious Music and Entertainment Columnists
- Sports and Religion Columnists
- Style and Religion Columnists
- Technology and Religion Columnists
- Travel and Religion Columnists
- Women in Religion Columnists
Resource Library
- 2026 Calendar
- Library of World Religions
- The 100 Most Holy Places on Earth
- Patheos Answers
- Podcasts
- Videos
- Faith Leaders Database
- Anglican Episcopalian
- Bahai
- Baptist
- Buddhism
- Christianity
- Confucianism
- Eastern Orthodoxy
- Hinduism
- Holiness and Pentecostal
- ISKCON
- Islam
- Judaism
- Lutheran
- Methodist
- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
- New Age
- Paganism
- Presbytarian and Reformed
- Protestantism
- Religion Behind the Scenes
- Roman Catholic
- Scientology
- Shia Islam
- Sikhism
- Sufism
- Sunni Islam
- Taoism
- Zen
- See all religions
Research Tools
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
- Trending:
- Forgiveness
- |
- Marriage
- |
- Consciousness
- |
- Death Penalty
- |
- Election
- |
- Halloween
Aidan Kelly: Including Paganism
- Home
- Pagan
- Goddess Murder, 7: Talking About Gnostic Gospels
Goddess Murder, 7: Talking About Gnostic Gospels
Last updated on: August 3, 2013 at 9:47 am by Aidan Kelly
Goddess Murder, 7: Talking About Gnostic Gospels 2013-08-03T09:47:29-07:00 Aidan Kelly
Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.
IX. The Work Continues
“Okay,” I said. “Has everyone here had a chance to read everybody’s rough drafts?”
Some but not all hands went up
“Not most of my people,” Megan said.
“As courtesy we should at least summarize what we’re looking at,” I said. “Two of these are probably, at least in general, what we classify as Gnostic or apocryphal gospels, but a gospel for witches is almost unprecedented. Before we go riding in among the trees, can anyone give us a map of the forest? What are we looking at here?”
“Dynamite,” Les said.
“I assume that we want to publish our translations, but what audience do we plan to address?” Brendan asked. “Other college professors?”
“No, I don’t think that would be right,” I said. “We already have a sense that more people than just scholars have a right to know what’s in these documents.”
“It would take one whole heck of a lot of commentary to provide a context for a general audience,” Alan said.
“Why?” Megan asked. “Why not just let people read what’s here and decide for themselves what to think about them?”
“That sounds reasonable in theory, Megan,” I said, ‘but almost no one except teachers of religious studies and theology could see what the historical implications of these documents might be.”
“Oh, really, Eddie,” she replied, “You’re being an elitist. People aren’t stupid. They can read this for themselves.”
“Of course people aren’t stupid, Megan,” I replied. “But relatively few people have ever been told any objective history about religion in general or Christianity in particular. Religion scholars, no matter what their own background or allegiance might be, do agree on a general outline of how Christianity began and how it evolved. But none of that is ever preached about on Sunday mornings. If I, for example, were to mention these standard mainstream theories to most lay people, they would think I’m some sort of atheist heretic. In order for them to understand the real significance of these documents—whatever that may turn out to be—they would need to also know that standard scholarly history. That’s what we would have to provide.”
“All right,” she said. “I see what you’re getting at. You wouldn’t be trying to prove that, say, orthodox Catholicism is simply false.”
“No, of course not,” I said. “By the nature of religion, you can never prove that a system of beliefs is wrong. But you can prove that it is more complex than one had thought. That’s how these new gospels are probably going to affect people’s ideas.”
Alan said, “I think the one that would have the least effect, because it’s the least surprising, is this Gospel of Simon and Helen. It confirms what Irenaeus and Hippolytus had to say about the Gnostics. It’s new mainly in that it seems to go back to Simon himself. By the way, would most of you agree that I’m the one here most obligated to defend the fundamental truth of Catholic beliefs?”
“Your SJ appellation would seem to point that way,” Les replied.
“Perhaps this might surprise some of you, perhaps not, but I haven’t seen anything in these documents that conflicts with that fundamental truth. There’s a lot that conflicts with the theories and explanations people have spun about those truths, but that’s a different issue,” Alan said.
Sherman added, “There’s also the open question of just where the dividing line fell, insofar as it wasn’t a wide grey area, between the orthodox and the heterodox in the first few centuries. We need to keep an open mind about whether the other two gospels can be classified as Gnostic or not. They may force us to redefine that term.”
Megan asked, “Exactly what do you mean by Gnostic?”
Alan replied, “It’s now a catchall term for the other early varieties of Christianity. When the Roman church was given governmental authority at the Nicene Council, it drove all its competitors out of the Empire or at least underground.”
Brendan added, “As for the term Gnostic, a modern agnostic says that he doesn’t know whether or not there is a God.
I said, “Yes, same root word. The ancient Gnostics were Knowers; they believed there was a God.”
Brendan added, “Or gods.”
“More importantly, they believed in the ultimate mystery, that humans are divine also,” Alan said.
Megan asked, “Don’t Hindus believe that?”
“Yes, but the Gnostics had a different spin on it. They believed that humans can become gods,” I said.
Megan commented, “I believe that’s possible. Just not in this life.”
“They meant in this life,” I said, picking up the original manuscripts. “What do you make of this? These originals are on modern paper, but they’re wrinkled, dogeared, dirty, seen hard use. People have been reading them intently as if they were . . .”
“Scripture,” Alan interjected.
“That was my guess also,” I said. “But why would anyone recent be reading Gnostic gospels that way? And a witch’s gospel?”
Brendan said, “I always thought the Gnostics had died out, that the church was paranoid in thinking they had resurfaced as the Cathars of Provence. “
Alan replied, “No, there was a connection. The Roman church was still converting Valentinians to orthodoxy in the eighth century. The Magyar invasion of southwestern Europe about the year 900 carried with it beliefs acquired from Gnostic or Manichaean sects hidden away in the Balkans, such as the Paulicians. Those in turn were apparently the source for the Cathars, although there is some evidence linking the Cathars to earlier traditions in Provence.”
“That seems like a wild possibility. Could there be a connection between some sort of Gnostic sect and the witches of medieval times?” I asked.
“That would make sense to me,” Brendan said. “There is a very Gnostic flavor to some aspects of Wicca.“
“Are you seriously proposing that the witches behind this other gospel are some type of Gnostics as well?” Les asked.
Megan said, “We’d like to have that sort of exalted concept of ourselves. Is that really possible?”
“That’s one issue we need to figure out,” I said. “Do we have some preliminary guesses at a time frame for these?”
Alan said, “I think so. This Gospel of Mary has a lot in common with the canonical gospels, but some elements in it put a different spin on those parallels and might be the starting points for various Gnostic concepts. We would have to date it very early, wouldn’t you say, Les?”
Les nodded vigorously, “If it’s not an extremely early gospel, it’s one hell of a clever forgery. The content fits the pattern of the things we can trace back into the first century, like the Gospel of Thomas. It probably derives from a copy written or preserved in Egypt. It may even be the Greek text that underlies some of the later Coptic fragments.”
“What’s Coptic?” Megan asked.
“A late form of Egyptian, like Italian is a late form of Latin,” he replied.
Seamus added, “This Gospel of Simon and Helen is somewhat later. Its events were more or less contemporary with those of the Gospel of Mary, but it was written later, in the fifth century.”
Angie broke in, “The events of the Gospel of Diana fall in the late twelfth century, but the writing of it continued down into the late nineteenth century.”
“In other words, it’s both medieval and recent,” I said. “That’s about what I guessed. Do any of you have an impression yet of how these three may be connected?”
Angie responded, “The main writer of the Gospel of Diana used the other two as models or raw material. You could guess that just because they were found together. Brendan’s right: there is an underlying Gnosticism in this witch stuff. Much of the theology is different, but the antinomianism is the same, the rebellion against a corrupt establishment, against `spiritual wickedness in high places,’ as Paul said.”
Previous Post

July 30, 2013
Goddess Murder, 6: Beginning the Gospel of Mary
Next Post

August 4, 2013 On Not Buying into Ancient Propaganda
Browse Our Archives
Select a Category Gnostics Pagan Paganism Poetry Social Justice Theology Uncategorized Witches
Select a Month August 2018 April 2018 February 2018 January 2018 August 2017 July 2017 June 2017 May 2017 April 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 August 2016 July 2016 June 2016 April 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 November 2015 September 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 September 2014 August 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012
TAKE THE
Religious Wisdom Quiz
Who was the wife of Abraham?
Select your answer to see how you score.
Rebecca Rachel Sarah Leah
Related posts from Aidan Kelly: Including Paganism
Aidan Kelly: Including Paganism
Our Experiment in Religious Engineering
Aidan Kelly: Including Paganism
On the Structure of Infinite Intelligence
Aidan Kelly: Including Paganism
Aidan Kelly: Including Paganism
TRENDING AT PATHEOS Pagan
I was recently chatting with someone on Instagram. She asked me what...
While there are many people who share their results, the end of...
On July 23, I saw Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey which is Homer’s...
As I write this two big events have just finished up. One...
Restoring the Watershed of Divine Love
Perhaps cooperation is not something we manufacture through legislation, ideology, or moral...
Many UUs don’t pray because of bad experiences in a previous religion,...
view all Pagan blogs
Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support
- About Us
- 2026 Calendar
- Videos
- Podcasts
- Library of World Religions
- Faith In Media Tracker
- Advertise With Us
- Write for Us
- Privacy Policy
- Terms of Service
- Do Not Sell My Data
- Contact Us
- Radiant Digital
- Manage Newsletter Subscriptions
- Unsubscribe From Notifications
- Sitemap
Copyright 2008-2026, Patheos. All rights reserved.
Subscription Support Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In







