Buddhist Catholic Contemplative Evangelical General Christian Hindu Jewish Latter-day Saint Muslim New Visions Progressive Christian

Beliefs

Topics

Columnists

Resource Library

Research Tools

Video

Podcasts

Thought Readers

Faith In Media Tracker

Newsletters

Ad-Free & Subscriber Log-In Subscription Support

Follow Patheos

Home
Evangelical
INTERVIEW – Wayne Grudem, Part Four – Ethical Trajectories, Feminism, and Homosexuality

INTERVIEW – Wayne Grudem, Part Four – Ethical Trajectories, Feminism, and Homosexuality

Last updated on: July 6, 2018 at 10:56 am by Adrian Warnock

2 Comments

INTERVIEW – Wayne Grudem, Part Four – Ethical Trajectories, Feminism, and Homosexuality 2018-07-06T10:56:38+01:00 Adrian Warnock

LOGO Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! Patheos has the views of the prevalent religions and spiritualities of the world.

This interview is being serialised over several days. So far I have published part one, which focused on personal issues, and part two, in which we discussed Systematic Theology. In part three, we explored Grudem’s charge that feminism inevitably leads to a denial of Scripture’s authority. Today we hone in on the “trajectory” arguments used on both sides of this debate. The interview is summarised in my post Dr Wayne Grudem Interview – Highlights and Reflections.

Adrian

One of the other egalitarian arguments that you address in your book is the claim that the Bible aims to set us on an ethical trajectory that takes us from where the culture of Bible times was to where God wants us to be ultimately. I have heard very similar arguments made about why the Church was right to reject slavery even though the Bible doesn’t at first glance seem to. How do you respond to the way some people connect the slavery issue and feminism?

Wayne

As I explain in my book (and at www.efbt100.com) the question of slavery is much different from the question of men’s and women’s roles in the home and in the church. God created marriage and God created the church, but slavery was a human institution not created by God. I know that there were some Christians who tried to use the Bible to support slavery in the 18th and 19th centuries in England and the United States. But they were wrong in their arguments, and other Christians looked at the Bible and disagreed with them and argued back. The people who tried to support slavery from the Bible eventually lost those debates, and the proof is that if you look around churches today, there is no denomination that supports slavery! The people who use the Bible to argue against slavery won the argument, and I think they had the best interpretation of Scripture.

One prominent American opponent of slavery was named Theodore Weld. He argued against American slavery from the Ten Commandments. He said, essentially, that when the Bible says, “Thou shalt not steal,” it prohibits taking even one penny from another human being against his will. But slavery robs another man of his entire life! He used other arguments like this to find his opposition to slavery from the Bible itself.

I think the ESV rightly translates 1 Timothy 1:10, which lists “enslavers” among evildoers, because the word there (Greek andrapodistes) means people who capture people or sell them into slavery.

Another point to remember is that the word “slave” is probably not the best translation of the Greek word doulos. The ESV has a footnote at this verse when it occurs in the New Testament, and the footnote says, “Greek bondservant.” That shows that it was an institution far different from the horrible abuses of slavery in the 18th and 19th century in North America, in the Caribbean, and in Latin America. A “bondservant” in the first century could normally earn his freedom by age 30, was protected by an extensive set of Roman laws, and owned private property. These “bondservants” often had significant responsibility as teachers, lawyers, physicians, managers, shopkeepers, and so forth. In the parable of the talents that Jesus tells, the master entrusts one “bondservant” with one talent, another with two, and another with five, which in modern equivalent terms would be equal to $400,000, $800,000, and $2,000,000 in U.S. currency today (or £210,000, £420,000, and £1,050,000). Then the master went away for a long time and these “bondservants” were left with the responsibility to manage the resources well. Such “bondservants” were in a much better situation than the day laborers who had to go into the market square and look for work each day (see Matthew 20:1-7).

However, bondservants could not quit their jobs and go to work for someone else until the period of the bondservice was up, or until they bought their freedom. I think the closest modern parallel (at least in the United States) would be military service, in which, once you get in, you can’t get out for a certain number of years, and there is a separate set of laws to which you are subject.

Now today, what worries me about these “trajectory hermeneutic” advocates is that they seem unaware of this entire history of biblical arguments against slavery, and they wrongly assume that the Bible actually supports slavery of the kind seen in the horrible abuses in America in the 18th and 19th centuries. This is preposterous. To say that the Bible supports such evils would be to say that the Bible, at the time of the New Testament, supported things that were morally evil, and I am simply not willing to do that.

Then these “trajectory hermeneutic” advocates say that we have to go beyond the moral teachings of the New Testament to find an “ultimate ethic” that is superior to that found in the words of New Testament. This is the position of William Webb, for example, at Heritage Theological Seminary, and it is also the position of R. T. France in the United Kingdom. These scholars look for our ethical standards at some point of development after the New Testament was written. And, of course, that is so highly subjective. People can imagine all sorts of developments that might have come “after” the New Testament, and it means that our authority is no longer the words of Scripture but some scholar’s imagination about where Scripture might have lead if the authors had been allowed to ponder a bit longer. This is directly undermining the authority of Scripture and it leads directly to liberalism.

Adrian
You also take up this idea of a trajectory further and claim that evangelical liberalism sets us on a journey that will end in three more consecutive steps:

The denial of anything uniquely masculine.

The acceptance of God as our Mother.

The gradual approval of homosexuality.

How do moderate evangelical feminists who claim to believe in the inerrancy of the Bible respond when you describe that evolution to them?

a/2006/12/Grudem%205-795677.jpg” align=”left” vspace=”20″>Wayne
Well, many of them are already advocating the first of those two points! I document this extensively in my book. The website of Christians for Biblical Equality, and their current executive director, Mimi Hadad, are already advocating the view that we should call God our Mother in heaven. And I show in my book how a number of evangelical authors or groups are now edging toward a gradual approval of homosexuality. This includes Jack and Judith Balswick at Fuller Seminary in their book, Authentic Human Sexuality, and it also includes some of the developments at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, the college of the Christian Reformed Church. I believe we will see other examples of this trend as well.

One recent tragic example that I mention in the book is that of Roy Clements, who was pastor of Eden Baptist Church in Cambridge when we were there on sabbatical for one year. A few years ago Roy tragically left his wife for a homosexual relationship with another man. He now has a website in which he defends his actions using arguments from the Bible. I think it’s significant that he says that the very same arguments that are used to support evangelical feminism work just as well to support his view that committed homosexual relationships are acceptable for Christians. I document extensively in my book that this is not a danger which “might” happen sometime in the future. It is something that is happening right now, before our very eyes. The arguments of evangelical feminism are leading people to deny the authority of Scripture and to move to theological liberalism, including the approval of homosexuality.

Continued in Wayne Grudem Replies to a Critic, and in part five . . .

Previous Post

December 7, 2006

PHOTOS - Adrian meets Phil Johnson

Next Post

December 8, 2006 Wayne Grudem Replies to a Critic

Recent Comments

2 Comments | Leave a Comment

Browse Our Archives

Select a Category 1 and 2 Corinthians 1 and 2 Thessalonians 1 and 2 Timothy 1 John 300 Leaders A Life of Joy Abortion Acts of the Apostles Adrian on radio Adrian on TV Adrian's Story Albert Mohler Amazing Grace Arminocalvinist Spectrum Assurance Atonement Atonement Series Attributes of God Barnabas Best of the Blog Bible Bible Software Bible Translation Biblical Inerrancy Billy Graham Bob Roberts Books C. J. Mahaney Calvinism Cessationism Charis Warnock Charismatic Spectrum Charles Simeon Charles Spurgeon Church Leadership Colossians Complementarian - Egalitarian Spectrum Complementarianism Conferences Culture Daniel Debates Deuteronomy DGM08 DGM13 Discernment Doctrine Don Carson Ed Stetzer Eddy Leo Ephesians ESV Bible Translators Interview Evangelism in a Post-Christian World evolution Exodus Expository Preaching Ezekial Faith and Feelings Family Florida Galatians General Genesis Get Wisdom - Proverbs sermons Gifts of The Holy Spirit Gifts of the Holy Spirit 2006 Global Faith Forum Godly Attitudes Gospel Gospels Grace Greg Haslam Grudem vs Piper: The Baptism Debate Healing Heaven Hell and Rob Bell Hebrews Henry Tyler Henry Warnock Holy Spirit Holy Spirit Baptism Hope Reborn Hugh Palmer Irresistable Grace Isaiah J. I. Packer Jack Hayford Joel Joel Warnock John John Lanferman John MacArthur John Newton John Owen John Piper John Smyth Jonathan Edwards Josh Harris Justification Justin Taylor Kenneth Ulmer Leadership Leadership Lessons from 1 & 2 Samuel Lex Loizides Liam Goligher Lig Duncan Limited Atonement Lou Fellingham Mark Dever Mark Driscoll Martyn Lloyd-Jones Matt Chandler Mental Health Missionary Methods: St Paul’s or Ours? My Story N. T. Wright Nehemiah NWA08 NWA09 NWA10 Opinion OT History Books Pentateuch Personal Personal Revival Philippians PJ Smyth Podcast Politics Preaching Prophecy Proverbs Psalms Raised With Christ Reformed Charismatic Regeneration Relationships Resurrection Resurrection & Salvation Revival Rice Broocks Rich Man and Lazarus Rick Warren Rob Rufus Roland Allen Romans Sam Storms Sanctification Series Sermons Sermons on Philippians Serving Jesus at Work Sexuality Sin St Paul Steve Chalke Strange Fire Suffering T4G T4G Statement TAB09 Tamasin Warnock Teamwork Terry Virgo The Atonement Debate - Chalke book The Soulwinner The Spirit-Filled Church The Traitor Within Theologcial Spectrums Theosis Tim Challies Tim Keller Titus TOAM06 TOAM07 TOAM08 TOAM09 TOAM10 TOAM11 Todd Bentley Tope Koleoso Total Depravity Video Water Baptism Wayne Grudem Worship

Select a Month November 2026 October 2026 September 2026 August 2026 July 2026 June 2026 May 2026 April 2026 March 2026 February 2026 January 2026 December 2025 November 2025 October 2025 September 2025 May 2025 April 2025 January 2025 November 2024 October 2024 August 2024 July 2024 June 2024 May 2024 April 2024 March 2024 February 2024 January 2024 December 2023 August 2023 May 2023 April 2023 February 2023 October 2022 September 2022 August 2022 July 2022 June 2022 May 2022 April 2022 March 2022 February 2022 August 2021 May 2021 April 2021 February 2021 January 2021 December 2020 October 2020 September 2020 August 2020 July 2020 June 2020 May 2020 April 2020 March 2020 February 2020 January 2020 December 2019 November 2019 October 2019 September 2019 June 2019 May 2019 April 2019 March 2019 January 2019 December 2018 October 2018 September 2018 August 2018 July 2018 June 2018 May 2018 April 2018 March 2018 February 2018 January 2018 December 2017 November 2017 October 2017 September 2017 June 2017 April 2017 March 2017 February 2017 January 2017 December 2016 November 2016 October 2016 June 2016 March 2016 February 2016 January 2016 December 2015 November 2015 September 2015 August 2015 July 2015 June 2015 May 2015 April 2015 March 2015 February 2015 January 2015 December 2014 November 2014 October 2014 September 2014 August 2014 July 2014 June 2014 May 2014 April 2014 March 2014 February 2014 January 2014 December 2013 November 2013 October 2013 September 2013 August 2013 July 2013 June 2013 May 2013 April 2013 March 2013 February 2013 January 2013 December 2012 November 2012 October 2012 September 2012 August 2012 July 2012 June 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 February 2012 January 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011 December 2010 November 2010 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 June 2010 May 2010 April 2010 March 2010 February 2010 January 2010 December 2009 November 2009 October 2009 September 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 April 2009 March 2009 February 2009 January 2009 December 2008 November 2008 October 2008 September 2008 August 2008 July 2008 June 2008 May 2008 April 2008 March 2008 February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 September 2007 August 2007 July 2007 June 2007 May 2007 April 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 December 2006 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 January 2006 December 2005 November 2005 October 2005 September 2005 August 2005 July 2005 June 2005 May 2005 April 2005 March 2005 February 2005 January 2005 December 2004 November 2004 October 2004 September 2004 August 2004 July 2004 June 2004 May 2004 April 2004 March 2004 February 2004 January 2004 December 2003 November 2003 October 2003 September 2003 August 2003 July 2003 June 2003 May 2003 April 2003

TAKE THE

Religious Wisdom Quiz

In which Psalm do we find "Your word is a lamp to my feet..."?

Select your answer to see how you score.

Psalm 27 Psalm 23 Psalm 119 Psalm 90

Books by This Author Books by Adrian Warnock

See All Titles »